Best audiophile switch

[Republicoftexas69]

I have compared the EtherRegen and Pardo MiniTeddy supply vs. the Silent Angel N16 and LHY SW-10, and it beats both, in my system and in a friend's more expensive system. IMO, the ER doesn't get the respect it deserves because of its low cost and humble casework.

The transformer-based galvanic isolation that is behind every RJ45 Ethernet jack in the world is not the same as the active-differential digital isolator chips and reclocking flip-flops of the EtherREGEN. No other switch contains this technology. I believe the upcoming EtherRegen V2 with your favourite external PSU will be the best switch in the world.

On the same note there are in line devices that do these same functions (albeit in a different manor) such as the Stack, EE1, and CAD. These types of devices have worked well for me though I did not have a real issues to stat with. Bought one gave it a try heck with 30 day returns had nothing to lose. Also seems that the UpTone folks are being surpassed in production, development and marketing. I do not see their devices being reviewed in the major online review sites. Rochester Carburetor?

 

[audiobomber]

On the same not there are in line devices that do these same functions (albeit in a different manor) such as the Stack, EE1, and CAD.

No, not the same at all. Those use transformers for isolation. I had a Muon for a couple of weeks and I do use a couple of LAN Isolator/Filters in my network, but they do not compare to an ER, in features or isolation.

Q. How can these leakage currents be blocked? Don’t standard Ethernet ports do this? And what about other types of isolators?
A. For leakage current to be stopped, a true isolator, properly implemented, is required. While you may see discussion of "galvanic isolators,” by definition galvanic isolation means only that DC is blocked. Galvanic isolators—be they transformers or any form of capacitive or optical digital logic isolator—still pass AC (alternating current). The transformers in Ethernet ports are galvanic isolators—they block DC—they also block low-source-impedance AC leakage. However, high-source-impedance leakage sails right through them.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0660/6121/files/UpTone-J.Swenson_EtherREGEN_white_paper.pdf?v=1583429386

 

[Republicoftexas69]

No, not the same at all. Those use transformers for isolation. I had a Muon for a couple of weeks and I do use a couple of LAN Isolator/Filters in my network, but they do not compare to an ER, in features or isolation.

Q. How can these leakage currents be blocked? Don’t standard Ethernet ports do this? And what about other types of isolators?
A. For leakage current to be stopped, a true isolator, properly implemented, is required. While you may see discussion of "galvanic isolators,” by definition galvanic isolation means only that DC is blocked. Galvanic isolators—be they transformers or any form of capacitive or optical digital logic isolator—still pass AC (alternating current). The transformers in Ethernet ports are galvanic isolators—they block DC—they also block low-source-impedance AC leakage. However, high-source-impedance leakage sails right through them.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0660/6121/files/UpTone-J.Swenson_EtherREGEN_white_paper.pdf?v=1583429386

Worked for me in my system. All I can say. I think what would help the folks with the ER is to update their website. I also do not buy into white papers.

 

[ssfas]

I have compared the EtherRegen and Pardo MiniTeddy supply vs. the Silent Angel N16 and LHY SW-10, and it beats both, in my system and in a friend's more expensive system. IMO, the ER doesn't get the respect it deserves because of its low cost and humble casework.

The transformer-based galvanic isolation that is behind every RJ45 Ethernet jack in the world is not the same as the active-differential digital isolator chips and reclocking flip-flops of the EtherREGEN. No other switch contains this technology. I believe the upcoming EtherRegen V2 with your favourite external PSU will be the best switch in the world.

Low cost and humble casework never put me off.

It seems to be a a highly respected and popular product. Apparently they sold loads of them, but they had production issues.

 

[audiobomber]

I also do not buy into white papers.

Like I said, I use LAN Isolators too. I'm not dismissing them, just trying to show that a transformer does not provide complete galvanic isolation. The ER does, as does fiber optic cable.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

Like I said, I use LAN Isolators too. I'm not dismissing them, just trying to show that a transformer does not provide complete galvanic isolation. The ER does, as does fiber optic cable.

Yes and I have fiber. the EE1 is in place on the dirty side as the external fiber is converted to copper and then back to fiber.

 

[Superdad]

I think what would help the folks with the ER is to update their website. I also do not buy into white papers.

Indeed our website could use a complete rework as it contains a lot of factual text and not much marketing fluff.
Truth is, we are a small firm with no marketing staff, we don't spend a dime on advertising, and we don't have a dealer network to give 40%+ discounts to (we have a few dealers overseas who make due with 15% off and free freight for 10+ unit orders).

Our out-the-door cost for EtherREGEN units is slightly over $400 each. Other manufacturers would charge a WHOLE LOT more than our $680 price--likely at least $1,600. And the techniques and technology of our switch are still, 4 years in, entirely unique and worthwhile.

From 2020 thru mid-2022 we built and sold over 3,200 units. That was fantastic--and then chip supply halted until late 2023. But having announced--almost 2 years ago--that we are working on EtherREGEN Gen2 with a bunch of advancements, sales of the original have slowed to about 20 per month. Always with a 30-day money-back guarantee.
That's fine with me (our overhead is low), but we sure are anxious to solve the final riddles of the new switch chip and PHY chips we have move to. Any day now, but then we will still have a few months of final test board rounds to go though. I have the utmost faith in my engineer partner, John Swenson, yet I know that everyone's patience is running out.

Sorry that you don't like 'white papers.' They are our attempt to educate about the underlying mechanisms of why anything makes a sonic difference in packet-data interfaces. It is complicated stuff and it seems like we are the only ones making the effort to explain what is really going on. But I guess some folks prefer vague, generic marketing-speak on slick web sites. That's just not what we are about.

Cheers,
--Alex C.

 

[kennyb123]

Sorry that you don't like 'white papers.' They are our attempt to educate about the underlying mechanisms of why anything makes a sonic difference in packet-data interfaces. It is complicated stuff and it seems like we are the only ones making the effort to explain what is really going on. But I guess some folks prefer vague, generic marketing-speak on slick web sites.

White papers such as yours can be inconvenient to those who want to believe only what they want to believe. Those with open minds, on the other hand, tend to welcome such things.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

White papers such as yours can be inconvenient to those who want to believe only what they want to believe. Those with open minds, on the other hand, tend to welcome such things.

Oohh that hurt. Not really and I have an open mind, just not buying marketing.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

Indeed our website could use a complete rework as it contains a lot of factual text and not much marketing fluff.
Truth is, we are a small firm with no marketing staff, we don't spend a dime on advertising, and we don't have a dealer network to give 40%+ discounts to (we have a few dealers overseas who make due with 15% off and free freight for 10+ unit orders).

Our out-the-door cost for EtherREGEN units is slightly over $400 each. Other manufacturers would charge a WHOLE LOT more than our $680 price--likely at least $1,600. And the techniques and technology of our switch are still, 4 years in, entirely unique and worthwhile.

From 2020 thru mid-2022 we built and sold over 3,200 units. That was fantastic--and then chip supply halted until late 2023. But having announced--almost 2 years ago--that we are working on EtherREGEN Gen2 with a bunch of advancements, sales of the original have slowed to about 20 per month. Always with a 30-day money-back guarantee.
That's fine with me (our overhead is low), but we sure are anxious to solve the final riddles of the new switch chip and PHY chips we have move to. Any day now, but then we will still have a few months of final test board rounds to go though. I have the utmost faith in my engineer partner, John Swenson, yet I know that everyone's patience is running out.

Sorry that you don't like 'white papers.' They are our attempt to educate about the underlying mechanisms of why anything makes a sonic difference in packet-data interfaces. It is complicated stuff and it seems like we are the only ones making the effort to explain what is really going on. But I guess some folks prefer vague, generic marketing-speak on slick web sites. That's just not what we are about.

Cheers,
--Alex C.

I see that your website needs an update....Good luck.

 

[kennyb123]

Oohh that hurt. Not really and I have an open mind, just not buying marketing.

Sorry I will reword that so it doesn’t come off as criticism of you. I meant it more generally as I’ve been astonished by the resistance that some have had to even giving their white paper a read. I don’t see how it could be said to be a marketing document, but one would have to read it with an open mind to come to that conclusion. Some novel concepts are well described such as “threshold jitter”. It’s not just noise from networks that can cause this, so it’s helpful to understand this concept.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

Sorry I will reword that so it doesn’t come off as criticism of you. I meant it more generally as I’ve been astonished by the resistance that some have had to even giving their white paper a read. I don’t see how it could be said to be a marketing document, but one would have to read it with an open mind to come to that conclusion. Some novel concepts are well described such as “threshold jitter”. It’s not just noise from networks that can cause this, so it’s helpful to understand this concept.

Sure it is helpful and I did read it. It is marketing, not slick and well done but it is marketing. I guess if I had real issues, and did not have fiber (only 20 feet of copper) maybe I would bite. The $250.00 EE1 was cheap and if it did not make a difference it's only $250.00 I flushed (I have flushed more on cables not paying attention to return windows). I also look at who is publishing the white papers and has the research been validated by a third party or publisher and or who is publishing it. Maybe more people would read it if it were more polished, you know like factual marketing fluff, not peer to peer engineering papers, and this presents more like an FAQ. Good content and interesting if you have the need.

 

[kennyb123]

Maybe more people would read it if it were more polished, you know like factual marketing fluff, not peer to peer engineering papers, and this presents more like an FAQ.

It’s interesting that you don’t mention finding fault with the actual arguments but only with how those are presented. I would say then that Uptone accomplished their objective. Those looking for excuses to ignore their findings are going to find them so better not to waste their time trying to appease those folks. Instead just aim to provide explanations to those genuinely interested in learning more. They’re too small a shop to waste time trying to convey information to those not open to receiving it.

Personally speaking, I was blown away by what I heard from the ER. That had me wondering how the heck it was possible to make such a difference. I’m thankful to John and Alex for taking the time to try to explain it. It all made perfect sense once they did.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

It’s interesting that you don’t mention finding fault with the actual arguments but only with how those are presented. I would say then that Uptone accomplished their objective. Those looking for excuses to ignore their findings are going to find them so better not to waste their time trying to appease those folks. Instead just aim to provide explanations to those genuinely interested in learning more. They’re too small a shop to waste time trying to convey information to those not open to receiving it.

Personally speaking, I was blown away by what I heard from the ER. That had me wondering how the heck it was possible to make such a difference. I’m thankful to John and Alex for taking the time to try to explain it. It all made perfect sense once they did.

No arguments, I enjoy my system as is right now and streaming is only for background noise while I am working. Primary audio entertainment is vinyl and has been since 1978. Everything in the audio chain has its cause and effect. Maybe if John gets their issues behind them I might try their Regen 2. Until then my 212, E1 and fiber are it. Cheers.

 

[Bones13]

Initially, my streaming breakthrough was the microRendu replacing the direct USB cable from my computer. That became complicated with separate PSU, ultra capacitor power cleaner, 2 power cables, and an ethernet cleaner device with its own PSU, power cable, and extra ethernet cable. Quite a rats nest developed. Some of the cables were heavier than the small boxes they ran to/from. At some point I ditched all that for the Bryston DAC with built in streamer module (BDA-3 iirc)

I was/am an UpTone etherRegen user from first introduction. Initially with copper Ethernet cables, and other connections in the audio stack. Great clarity vs the generic hub it replaced, and a steal at the price! Streaming DAC was the Bryston.

Next step was to introduce a fiber link from the preceding switch, and movement of several video sources into a smaller stack under the TV, away from the audio rack with their own hub. Fiber + less action at the etherRegen = less noise. Still using an iFi PSU. Streaming DAC was Bricasti, and more recently an MSB Premier DAC.

More recent improvement has been the Digital Director addition, which moves the streamer module to another case, with its own fiber connections. Nice clock in the MSB, of course.

Not positive that a high powered switch is needed with the DD cleaning things up, and providing the noise isolation. EtherRegen still in place.

 

[audiobomber]

Still using an iFi PSU

Lots of room for improvement there. I compared the iFi Elite to a Zero-Zone 2020 SS LPS, which was half the price. Linear power was better; smoother highs, warmer sound, with significantly more bass power. Currently I use a Teddy Pardo 12/2, which is a further upgrade.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

Lots of room for improvement there. I compared the iFi Elite to a Zero-Zone 2020 SS LPS, which was half the price. Linear power was better; smoother highs, warmer sound, with significantly more bass power. Currently I use a Teddy Pardo 12/2, which is a further upgrade.

For your system. YMMV. Not sure why a manufacturer cannot supply a quality power supply. If you are spending $650.00 on a switch why not make it $800 and provide a quality LPS, baffles me.

 

[audiobomber]

For your system. YMMV.

I'm pretty familiar with iFi power supplies. I own an iPower 12V, iPower2 5V and iPower X 9V. I had the Elite in-house for a couple of weeks. I am not making a blanket recommendation that a linear power supply is better than any iFi SMPS, it does vary, depending on the gear, system and personal preference. I have experienced situations where either LPS or iFi was better, but I am pretty confident that any decent linear PSU will be better than any iFi SMPS on an EtherRegen.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

I'm pretty familiar with iFi power supplies. I own an iPower 12V, iPower2 5V and iPower X 9V. I had the Elite in-house for a couple of weeks. I am not making a blanket recommendation that a linear power supply is better than any iFi SMPS, it does vary, depending on the gear, system and personal preference. I have experienced situations where either LPS or iFi was better, but I am pretty confident that any decent linear PSU will be better than any iFi SMPS on an EtherRegen.

Sure I get it. Still wonder why manufacturers go cheap on such a critical component. If your core product is so good why not provide a quality LPS.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

If you are spending $650.00 on a switch why not make it $800 and provide a quality LPS, baffles me.

...it's not baffling at all. The included ps is fine, but guys like to tinker. If they included a "better" lps for more money:
a) some would complain about the increase in price as they already have a great lps to use.
b) some would complain this more expensive lps is not as good as Xlps, and away we go.

Some of us took apart our 12K DAVE dacs to replace the smps with a 7K power supply, $500 cap board, and then upgraded the ps with the ARC6 board for another couple of g's. And I use a Denefrips Gaia to bypass the old Amanero USB implementation, for another 1,500 bucks.

This is an old lament: why no "good" power cable, lps, etc.