Hopefully before tariffs, says the Canadian.Me too. Hurry please @Superdad
Best audiophile switch
- Thread starter Frankie67
- Start date
None of this addresses why you repeatedly offer opinions on products with which you have no experience.
He clearly stated that it was an issue with the cable - specifically the cable that you recommended.
I do use those cables, I’ve used them for years.
I was doing digital data switching in the early 1980s, before the current ethernet protocols even existed. We had $millions invested in Tandem computer systems and and were in the business of coverting telex messages (analogue), digitising and sending over leased lines. We had a team manually correcting the analogue data, the whole point of it was that once digitised it could be transmitted error-free.
If you didn't have guaranteed data integrity, there modern world would not exist in its current form. Hardware issues are another matter. I learned this 45 years ago, I just don't understand how anyone can believe that an ethernet cable made to specification can have any material impact on sound quality.
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Because they've actually used their ears and have a system good enough to show it to be true.
My wife who can't stand audio gear can hear the difference as well clear as day.
I think we could easily turn it and and say "I just don't understand how anyone can have such poor hearing and such a low-fi system, on a forum meant for high end systems, that they can't hear the huge sound difference between certain ethernet cables".
I was convinced it couldn't make a difference. Then I bought different cables and switches and tried for myself. I could not believe how big the difference was even going into it thinking there would not be.
If you can't hear the difference, good for you. Just accept others have better hearing and move on. We don't care that you don't "understand" how we can hear better than you. It's always the same with these cable-deaf people either insinuating or outright being condescending and telling us we are wrong. It's like they can't just respect what we hear, just as we respect that they can't hear. They are like moths to a flame - they literally can't just leave us alone on threads that talk about the sound differences without feeling the need to come "correct us".
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I was able to easily pick up the sonic differences between a stock, cheap yellow E cable that came with an Auaralic Vega G1 years ago, compared to another el cheapo $14 E cable I had laying around from Amazon.
Long story short, I now have a Shunyata Omega, Alpha and Venom. I can tell you with full confidence that If I didn't hear a big difference? I sure wouldn't have even given any thought at all about spending that amount of coin.
As the rig has progressed, the current cables have really held up to where the system performance level has risen to. No regrets.
Tom
Long story short, I now have a Shunyata Omega, Alpha and Venom. I can tell you with full confidence that If I didn't hear a big difference? I sure wouldn't have even given any thought at all about spending that amount of coin.
As the rig has progressed, the current cables have really held up to where the system performance level has risen to. No regrets.
Tom
You don’t have to read—or comment. If this topic frustrates you so much, feel free to move on.
You’ve repeatedly dismissed firsthand comparisons and actual listening tests with outdated claims and speculation. Your refusal to engage in direct testing, while insisting on the same tired arguments, is not a contribution—it's just noise. If you're not willing to test or compare, then stop dictating conclusions to those who do. This forum is for serious discussions, not for rehashing decades-old skepticism that has already been addressed.
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What you think you learned 45 years ago is hindering how you think about this now.
You are right that the difference some perceive has nothing to do with data integrity. It is very obviously caused by something else. The mistake you make is thinking that reality has to conform to the limits of your understanding. Just because you can’t conceive of how these cables could possibly make a difference doesn’t mean the reason doesn’t exist.
I know a little about Shunyata. I went to a talk/demo by the owner/designer Gabriel at a local dealer. I bought some of their power products because of a poor power mains configuration, before rewiring the house, which fixed everything. I had a Hydra Alpha and some of their power cables. I did try a Shunyata ethernet cable, but returned it. It was in a different system to my current system.
There is no point arguing about subjective sound. You can look at the technical aspects of the cable, which in the professional world is all that matters.
Shunyata have a base cable for £250. The next one up simply changes from Belden to Telegartner connectors. The retail cost of the difference is £10, Shunyata add £100 to get to £350. They then add an external common mode choke (+£300) and then a second one (+£250). There should be common mode noise rejection inside your streamer, usually in the socket. I also use an inline filter from EMO Systems. https://the-ear.net/review-hardware/shunyata-research-venom-delta-alpha-sigma-ethernet-cables/
There is a change from 24 to 22 AWG. I think the AQ Pearl is 22 AWG, Supra is 23 AWG. It does not add to cost. It does make crimping connections easier. There is stuff about cross-talk, but that is part of CAT cable technical specification, with which Belden cable complies. They go on about impedance matching the wire, but the most important aspect of this is the plug connection.
The Telegartner plug this is classic audiophilia. Telegartner themselves explain that the purpose of the plugs is to facilitate quick and easy repair. It has nothing to do with transmission performance or shielding. I use Telegartner on one long cable that runs under a floor and behind a wall, so cannot be replaced. On factory-terminated cables that can be easily replaced, standard connectors are fine. They just don’t look very audiophile. They do have a disadvantage in that they can’t fit in to Ubiquiti access points, which are very widely used (I use 5 of them).
What is left is that both Shunyata and QSA say they have propietary cable frying processes, KPIP and MMT respectively. Their ability to manipulate molecular structures using their big secret … enough said.
This from Telegartner’s product brochure:
@ssfas we have been over this ad nauseum and you have entered the conversation late and it just shows you have not bothered to read or understand our point of view. When audiophiles do network changes like switches and ethernet cable it's about countering ground noise and noise generated by high frequency switching chips, noise that even rides on the outer insulation of connecting cables. This passes from network gear into the streamer/DAC effecting the DA conversion, the analogue output stages e.t.c
This has nothing to do with packet transfer, data integrity e.t.c You can have a bit for bit perfect network system, working normally by IT standards, yet it still give off copious amounts of noise that deleteriously effects the streamer and DAC at the end of the chain.
This has nothing to do with packet transfer, data integrity e.t.c You can have a bit for bit perfect network system, working normally by IT standards, yet it still give off copious amounts of noise that deleteriously effects the streamer and DAC at the end of the chain.
@ssfas you’re in the Best Audiophile Switch thread—have you even noticed? Instead of contributing anything relevant, you’re just spouting the same tired anti-audiophile rhetoric that ignores real-world comparisons. We get it: you don’t believe cables matter. But this thread is for those who actually listen and evaluate, not those who dismiss everything based on outdated assumptions. If you're not here to engage in meaningful discussion, move on and let the rest of us continue without the constant derailment.
Attention to all other participants: He’s not here for meaningful discussion—just to argue and drown out real comparisons. He name-drops brands, dealers, and past experiences to sound knowledgeable, but without engaging in actual listening comparisons. The best way to handle this is simple: ignore him and report his behavior. Let’s keep this forum focused on constructive discussions, not endless distractions.
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Here is the thing. We are not in the professional world. We are in a hobby where listening (subjective sound) is exactly what members are here to discuss. Last anyone checked, no one is here listening to measurements. They are listening to sound. Here is a quote from a well respected industry insider. You may know of him -
Nelson Pass said:
That said, it has been requested by multiple members of the forum that we get back on topic. It is unfair to the members who subscribe and click onto this thread, to continue reading old and outdated arguments that are completely off topic from the best audiophile switch. You are more than welcome to continue your views about the technical merits of an E cable here on the WBF, but we do ask you to create another thread specific to that topic elsewhere, and in the appropriate section of the forum. Thank you.
Tom
We have no way of knowing that the connector is the only difference. Also the material cost isn’t the only contributor to the selling price. A change in connectors will bring a change to assembly. That could mean additional labor costs if the cable is terminated by hand or additional machining costs if the termination is automated. Those costs need to be factored into the selling price.
I wish a disclaimer could be automatically appended to each of your posts that warns readers to take your comparison with a grain of salt as you always choose the least charitable way of looking at the value that audiophile brands provide.
Afternoon to ya', Kenny. It was just requested by many here that we stay on the best audiophile switch topic. Can we just let it be please? It would be appreciated by more than just I. Thank you sir.
Tom
Tom
I m really interested in this comment as I am considering this upgrade. Was the jump really that big?
I am using mine on my two SOtM switches.
Had you changed the fuses in the IEC input at all?
Yes, but I should mention that I got a double whammy as both my DAC and my ER are fed from the clock. It really did seem to be a more significant step up than adding the clock in the first place. Also better clock cables can bring nice improvements. I moved from the Shunyata Delta V2 to the Sigma V2 on my DAC. Not subtle.
Yes. Slightly oversized but left over fuse from my amp went into it. I can't recall which SR fuses they were - it was either the older Red or Black series. There was a slight uptick but I didn't come away thinking that the price of new fuse(s) would be justified. [It takes two fuses though not sure if both are needed, but I filled both slots as I happened to have two.
I should also mention that the REF10 SE120 can benefit from grounding. I grounded it to the ground connection on my Shunyata Denali v1 using a a Shunyata Venom cable. A slight uptick that justified the price of that Venom cable. Improvement was easier to hear than connecting that same cable to the ground of my EtherRegen.
One of the issues I have with WBF is that folks get so totally off topic and the threads become so long that I would have to devote my life to keeping up with all the totally off topic comments. Also, there are so many comments that a good topic comes and goes too fast, swamped by mostly irrelevant off topic comments that folks make that have some ax to grind. I think the question was concerning switches. The reason I love McIntosh engineering so much is that when McIntosh solves an engineering problem, it is generally very cost effective and elegant. I personally think McIntosh switching is the best in the industry.
They are ageless, noiseless, and distortion free. They are cheap, and McIntosh can supply more inputs and outputs with perfect fidelity than any other manufacturer because obviously inputs and outputs require switches. Switches and volume controls are critical and McIntosh has the best.
Best
Charles
Charles Updated System: Wilson McIntosh Audioquest
Amps: McIntosh: MC3500MKII (2); MC1.25KW (2); MC2.1KW An
Preamp: C-12000 An
Sources: MCD12000 An; MVP881; MVP851; MR87; Marantz 510LV; Lenovo Yoga laptop
Speakers: Wilson Chronosonic XVX
Sub-Woofer: Wilson Thor’s Hammer; Wilson ActivXO Stereo Electronic Crossover
Cables Main System AQ: WEL Signature speaker cables; 24’ balanced IC; balanced 1-meter Dragon IC ; WEL Signature digital, Coffee digital coaxial cables; Diamond optical (2); Diamond USB; Dragon (5 HC, 3 source cords); Thunder & Monsoon power cords
Cables Subwoofer System AQ: Redwood speaker cable; Wolf balanced subwoofer IC; Wind balanced IC to ActivXO; Hurricane HC; Firebird HC; Firebird Source; Dragon HC, power cords
Power Conditioners: AQ Niagara 7000; Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines.
Isolation: Wilson Pedestals; Bassocontinuo McIntosh Ultra Feet; X-material plinth
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD)
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes
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A public message to the membership at the WBF - Thread drift is one thing but a continuation of off topic posts, after multiple requests to stay on topic is unacceptable. The thread has been scrubbed of all of the most recent off topic posts. One member is temporarily no longer with us. We hope he takes this time to reflect on his actions.
Any further off topic posts will be deleted without notice and if warranted, further administrative actions will take place.
Any further off topic posts will be deleted without notice and if warranted, further administrative actions will take place.
Thanks @wbfteam!
Oh boy, recent contributions make me believe this thread has passed its expiry date. Instead of just debating which switch is best, why not discuss how to best integrate network components for optimal sound? After all, there’s common agreement that it’s not about the integrity of the digital stream itself, but everything else that influences the result.
Oh boy, recent contributions make me believe this thread has passed its expiry date. Instead of just debating which switch is best, why not discuss how to best integrate network components for optimal sound? After all, there’s common agreement that it’s not about the integrity of the digital stream itself, but everything else that influences the result.
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