Best audiophile switch

[TonyW]

This is the dashboard for my music server. I pulled the drop down to show all of the options. Even when playing music the CPU usage shows 0% most of the time. I would not know how to use many of these options. My first encounter with computers required key punch cards. I kept up for several decades…

 

[Di-fi]

This is the dashboard for my music server. I pulled the drop down to show all of the options. Even when playing music the CPU usage shows 0% most of the time. I would not know how to use many of these options. My first encounter with computers required key punch cards. I kept up for several decades…

View attachment 147012

Tony, thanks for your posts. My initial question about listening to local files vs. Qobuz or Tidal was focused on the influence and quality of the network involved in streaming.

When playing local files, aside from a control device connected to the K50, playback can happen without the internet. For streaming, as most do here, the internet is required—meaning everything upstream of your best (last) switch until the router could influence sound quality. That may not be audible to you, or might not make any difference at all of course. Additionally, several switch users have reported improvements when playing local files because of the last best switch connected. That’s another debate, but in your setup local files should theoretically offer the best sound quality and serve as a great reference point for comparing streaming setups.

That brings me back to streaming with your K50. The settings you’ve shown are all pre-selections, but they still require the proper player and server configuration behind them. Among Antipodes users, there’s ongoing discussion about the best setup for streaming. For a long time, Squeeze server to Squeeze player has been considered superior, avoiding Roon to maintain sound quality on par (or almost) with local files (though at the cost of sacrificing Roon’s great UI). Of course, catering to the need for better streaming SQ, network devices continuously improve, Roon has also evolved, and not everyone agrees on what’s best—so I’ll leave it at that.

Since you were mostly streaming—like most users here—that answers my question on how to interpret your results.

 

[TonyW]

Tony, thanks for your posts. My initial question about listening to local files vs. Qobuz or Tidal was focused on the influence and quality of the network involved in streaming.

When playing local files, aside from a control device connected to the K50, playback can happen without the internet. For streaming, as most do here, the internet is required—meaning everything upstream of your best (last) switch until the router could influence sound quality. That may not be audible to you, or might not make any difference at all of course. Additionally, several switch users have reported improvements when playing local files because of the last best switch connected. That’s another debate, but in your setup local files should theoretically offer the best sound quality and serve as a great reference point for comparing streaming setups.

That brings me back to streaming with your K50. The settings you’ve shown are all pre-selections, but they still require the proper player and server configuration behind them. Among Antipodes users, there’s ongoing discussion about the best setup for streaming. For a long time, Squeeze server to Squeeze player has been considered superior, avoiding Roon to maintain sound quality on par (or almost) with local files (though at the cost of sacrificing Roon’s great UI). Of course, catering to the need for better streaming SQ, network devices continuously improve, Roon has also evolved, and not everyone agrees on what’s best—so I’ll leave it at that.

Since you were mostly streaming—like most users here—that answers my question on how to interpret your results.

You are right. Using Squeeze on the player side sounds better than Roon. I have not tried the Squeeze/Squeeze combination. But I wouldn’t use that combo anyway since I like the Roon interface and also using Roon ARC in the car. Using Roon/Roon or Roon/Squeeze is transparent to me as far as how I select the music on my iPad. The Roon App on the iPad simply shows output to Squeeze. I can switch the player side to Roon, reset the output on the Roon App on my iPad from Squeeze to show the DAC in seconds. I haven’t tried the Roon player in a while. Might be worth looking into it again just to see how it is sounding.

As far as streaming vs local files, I feel like hi res local files have a slight edge over everything else. Streaming Qobuz for me sounds excellent- Best of Best files match BOB vinyl for me now using this SR Ethernet Switch. (Perhaps I am at the limit of my hearing.) But that is not in the context of the sound really, it’s more about the sound stage size, focus and startling imaging. Vinyl used to be the best at all that but digital is right up there now as well.

Currently, the LHY SW-8 feeds to the English Electric EE-8 via a 75 ft Cat 8 cable and then into the Apple TV box. Streaming looks excellent although if I play a 4k Blu-ray Disc I can see just a bit more detail in the picture; but only if I am standing two feet or so in front of the screen. I have a 65” TV 14 ft from my couch. TV size is limited by my wife. I could imagine that streaming would not be best if using a top quality 100” or larger screen. Yes, much of the old hifi gear trickles down to my HT system- and it has benefited from that. It took me the better part of a day to run that Cat 8 cable through the walls and under the house to get to the Apple TV box. But it was worth it. Without the audio grade Ethernet switch feeding the TV, the streaming picture would appear to be clear and sharp but upon close inspection I could see the images were smeared. Adding the audio grade ethernet switch improves the detail in the picture by a lot- and is an easilly visibile difference from my couch. Also, I find streaming with the Apple TV box looks better than via the internal TV processor. I have a QD-OLED TV.

 

[Di-fi]

As far as streaming vs local files, I feel like hi res local files have a slight edge over everything else. Streaming Qobuz for me sounds excellent- Best of Best files match BOB vinyl for me now using this SR Ethernet Switch.

Exactly, I think the goal might be to bridge the gap with analog or local high-res files, but the result is often a refined digital experience that stands on its own rather than replicating another format exactly.

 

[Iamrael]

It’s been suggested earlier in this thread and in others as well; Euphony/Pink Faun has free trial on their software that is worth a listen.
Can be loaded on either Mac or PC.

 

[sbo6]

Better clocks require better power supplies and better regulation. More than enough effort to be worth a little extra

Define a little extra? If you're leveraging a $20 Netgear switch, how much optimization is left on the table to be worth selling for, say $2000, a reasonable price nowadays for some switches. Contrast that with a Etherregen designed from scratch for under $700.

 

[Di-fi]

Not sure if this has been discussed at an earlier time... does one recommend still using an Ethernet switch if you have the following in your streaming set-up?
- using only one device (streamer & dac)
- using an optical isolator (converting ethernet to fibre, and back to ethernet)
- using an Ethernet filter - e.g., Smoothlan Regenerator; NA Muon Pro; English Electric EE1 Plus

Question 2:
Is better to put a linear power supply (sbooster) on the modem, router or both knowing that both router and modem are on one dedicated circuit with a dedicated EMI/RFI ac filter, separate from the rest of the gear. Or none at all?
Thanks!

1) How would you connect without a switch?
Direct to the router? I don’t see how that would work effectively.
2) Where should a linear power supply be placed?
Try each with a good LPS, and in some setups you can hear the difference.

 

[analogsa]

Contrast that with a Etherregen designed from scratch for under $700.

If a switch produces better audible results in a particular setup and to a particular set of ears, that's all that counts. It is only the end result that counts and for better or worse, this isn't an engineering discipline with clearly stated objectives and design parameters.

 

[Gene 15352]

Wired ethernet cable from router to streamer. I assumed most set ups were like that.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

Wired ethernet cable from router to streamer. I assumed most set ups were like that.

No not all.

 

[TonyW]

Wired ethernet cable from router to streamer. I assumed most set ups were like that.

That is the worst possible set-up.
I found over the last few years for me- worst to best is:
7) Direct $6 ethernet cable from router to streamer. If this makes you happy- stop reading.
6) Basic Ethernet switch between router and streamer with std SMPS
5) Two FMC’s with optical fiber link
- Upgrade to linear power supplies
- Upgrade to Finisar SFP’s. Forget the number right now but I have them on the shelf.
- Upgrade to silver plated wire ethernet cables- Pangea worked good and are about 6-8X cost of Amazon basics. Cable closest to the streamer has the biggest impact.
4) Upgrade to LHY SW-8 Ethernet Switch or something comparable.
- Remove the fiber optic link. The SW-8 sounds better without it.
3) Add in a 2nd Switch in series. In my case I got the English Electric EE-8 switch. I think both of these switches, the LHY and the EE8 are comparable.
2) Upgrade Ethernet cables

1) Upgrade to a high end Ethernet Switch- these ethernet switches are in a league of their own. Of course, a comparable high end streamer is required, I would think. I have now tested the SR Ethernet Switch UEF and the SR Ethernet Switch UEF MkII. So I have limited experience with high end switches. But I have found the one I want. It turns my crank.

Disclaimer: YMMV

 

[Di-fi]

Wired ethernet cable from router to streamer. I assumed most set ups were like that.

Preamp: Spectral DMC-30SS series 2
Amp: Spectral DMA-300SV
Streamer: Aurender N20
Dac: Metronome Le DAC 2
LAN Network: Ediscreation Fiber Box II Extreme/Ediscreation Firebird LPS
Speakers: Vimberg Amea
Power: Angela-Gilbert Yeung XF-3800 Powerline Filter (modified: hard wired Furutech DPS 4.1 power cable incl. DC blocker)
Cables: MIT 2C3D Level One speaker cable/Furutech NCF power cables/Flux-50 NCF Power Filters/NeoTech NEP 3001 & JPS 10 awg in-wall power cable

Could it be that you're asking this because you already have an Ediscreation Fiberbox II Extreme between your router and streamer? If so, why would adding a switch make a difference? It seems that Ediscreation has designed a complementary? Silent Switch OCXO II Extreme, which could provide some level of improvement. Most switches, as discussed here, operate on a different level or partially overlap with what you already have. It's definitely worth investigating further.

---

Ediscreation Fiber Box II (not Extreme)

 

[Superdad]

It is only the end result that counts and for better or worse, this isn't an engineering discipline with clearly stated objectives and design parameters.

Except that in the case of our EtherREGEN we did have some VERY clear objectives and design parameters.
[Putting an Ethernet signal across a "moat"/gap via active, high-speed differential isolators, and then running that signal though ultra-low-jitter differential reclocking flip-flops, with all chips running from a low-phase noise synthesizer and XO (or external) and state-of-the-art voltage regulators. Nobody else had done all that--then or since. Goals were to block all leakage current and to reduce propagation of phase-noise induced ground-plane noise.]
Invested about $100K before even listening to the final piece. Sold 3,200 units at $640 (just double parts cost) for two years before chip shortages forced halt; Ran another 300 when parts came back in 2024 (sold at $680 due to cost rise) and are now down to the last 10.

Still struggling with a bedeviling last programming hurdle (though it was solved back in September) that is keeping us from entering production of a much further improved Gen2. We'll get there--soon I hope!

 

[kennyb123]

I bought these UEF enhancers in December and have been using them with the loaner switch. I am going to be disciplined and not plug these into the new, Mark II version switch the first week.

Please share your thoughts on these after you try them in the new switch. They are the only SR product that I’ve tried that seem to make little difference.

 

[jasond]

Well there are a number of approaches though anyway it’s the outcome, end-result that counts.

 

[Gene 15352]

Except that in the case of our EtherREGEN we did have some VERY clear objectives and design parameters.
[Putting an Ethernet signal across a "moat"/gap via active, high-speed differential isolators, and then running that signal though ultra-low-jitter differential reclocking flip-flops, with all chips running from a low-phase noise synthesizer and XO (or external) and state-of-the-art voltage regulators. Nobody else had done all that--then or since. Goals were to block all leakage current and to reduce propagation of phase-noise induced ground-plane noise.]
Invested about $100K before even listening to the final piece. Sold 3,200 units at $640 (just double parts cost) for two years before chip shortages forced halt; Ran another 300 when parts came back in 2024 (sold at $680 due to cost rise) and are now down to the last 10.

Still struggling with a bedeviling last programming hurdle (though it was solved back in September) that is keeping us from entering production of a much further improved Gen2. We'll get there--soon I hope!

Please keep us posted when Gen 2 arrives.

 

[PYP]

Please share your thoughts on these after you try them in the new switch. They are the only SR product that I’ve tried that seem to make little difference.

That is interesting. I use two with the Mk1 UEF and they did indeed lift the performance after a few hours of playing music (demo units). All systems are different, of course.

I too am interested if/how they affect the Mk2. I would assume they aren't needed since all of the upgrades made inside the new unit.

 

[TonyW]

Please share your thoughts on these after you try them in the new switch. They are the only SR product that I’ve tried that seem to make little difference.

I will. The plan is to plug in the performance enhancers Monday night to let them settle in for a day. Then I’ll listen Tuesday and see if I hear a difference.

I played music for almost 6 hours yesterday- about 3 hours listening intently. I didn’t hear any changes from the day before. I decided to try the Carbon Tuning Discs that came with the Mark II switch. First, I put the gold tuning disc on the power cord. It made the sound sharp, like an edge to the loud peaks. It wasn’t a brightness, just put an edge on things. I didn’t like it. After about 40 minutes of listening I swapped the gold disc for the purple disc on the power cord. Now things sounded much better. I plan to listen tonight and will remove the purple disc to see if I like the sound better with or without the purple disc on the power cord.