Elliot G.
Industry Expert
At Praiptor's homethe Diamond with the clock was significantly better than the EMM and IMHO better than the dCS which my other friend owns
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- Thread starter BFlowers
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At Praiptor's homethe Diamond with the clock was significantly better than the EMM and IMHO better than the dCS which my other friend owns
For what its worth, this information was volunteered to me via private email by an esteemed computeraudiophile member, that owns a very high end system himself ......
....... a friend of mine owns the full DCS Scarlatti 4 box digital stack. He had a chance to audition an MSB digital stack in his system. The MSB stack was as follows: MSB Diamond DAC IV with the optional FemtoSecond Galaxy clock upgrade (so the top line clock), the MSB Diamond Power Base and the MSB Platinum Data CD IV transport. The Diamond power base was used to power both the DAC IV and the Data CD IV transport. The Transport was connected to the DAC via a stock ethernet cable to the Pro I2s input on the DAC. My friend's system is very good - dedicated room, significant work done on the electrical power, Wilson Alexandria X-2 Series 2 speakers, Lamm amps and ARC preamp. We used redbook CD's to compare the 2 front ends. The net bottom line is that we both agreed that the MSB digital stack was a quite a bit better than the Scarlatti - from soundstage, bass, resolution, harmonic density of images, etc. And the improvement was very easy to hear. My friend was quite surprised by how much better the MSB was to his ears.
Now, what about the Vivaldi. I have another friend (but not local to me) who just traded in his Scarlatti front end for the 3 box Vivaldi front end. He told me that the Vivaldi is better than the Scarlatti - but not dramatically - but he can hear an improvement in its resolution. There is another post on the What's best Forum - same thing - someone upgraded from the Scarlatti to the Vivaldi and describes similiar improvements but not dramatic (both to soundstage and resolution). The MSB configuration that my friend auditioned, is not the top line setup from MSB. For that, you would want their Signature Data CD IV transport with its own separate Signature Transport Power base. (The Diamond power base that he used contains both a linear power supply for the DAC and a separate switching power supply for the transport. The Signature Transport Power base is a full linear power supply just for the transport.
Bottom line to me is that I would expect the full MSB digital front end to outperform the full DCS Vivaldi front end. I think I also read that on this thread that you have the EMM DAC2x. I myself did a comparison of the same MSB digital stack that my friend used to the EMM XDS1 CD/SACD player. I would guess that the sonics of the DAC2x with a good music server/streamer to be roughly the same as the XDS1 (perhaps the DAC2x is a little better). The MSB stack was, in my opinion, in my system, quite a bit superior to the EMM XDS1 (of course, it is more expensive as well). After I did that comparison, I actually purchased an MSB digital front end and I couldn't be happier with it.
....... a friend of mine owns the full DCS Scarlatti 4 box digital stack. He had a chance to audition an MSB digital stack in his system. The MSB stack was as follows: MSB Diamond DAC IV with the optional FemtoSecond Galaxy clock upgrade (so the top line clock), the MSB Diamond Power Base and the MSB Platinum Data CD IV transport. The Diamond power base was used to power both the DAC IV and the Data CD IV transport. The Transport was connected to the DAC via a stock ethernet cable to the Pro I2s input on the DAC. My friend's system is very good - dedicated room, significant work done on the electrical power, Wilson Alexandria X-2 Series 2 speakers, Lamm amps and ARC preamp. We used redbook CD's to compare the 2 front ends. The net bottom line is that we both agreed that the MSB digital stack was a quite a bit better than the Scarlatti - from soundstage, bass, resolution, harmonic density of images, etc. And the improvement was very easy to hear. My friend was quite surprised by how much better the MSB was to his ears.
Now, what about the Vivaldi. I have another friend (but not local to me) who just traded in his Scarlatti front end for the 3 box Vivaldi front end. He told me that the Vivaldi is better than the Scarlatti - but not dramatically - but he can hear an improvement in its resolution. There is another post on the What's best Forum - same thing - someone upgraded from the Scarlatti to the Vivaldi and describes similiar improvements but not dramatic (both to soundstage and resolution). The MSB configuration that my friend auditioned, is not the top line setup from MSB. For that, you would want their Signature Data CD IV transport with its own separate Signature Transport Power base. (The Diamond power base that he used contains both a linear power supply for the DAC and a separate switching power supply for the transport. The Signature Transport Power base is a full linear power supply just for the transport.
Bottom line to me is that I would expect the full MSB digital front end to outperform the full DCS Vivaldi front end. I think I also read that on this thread that you have the EMM DAC2x. I myself did a comparison of the same MSB digital stack that my friend used to the EMM XDS1 CD/SACD player. I would guess that the sonics of the DAC2x with a good music server/streamer to be roughly the same as the XDS1 (perhaps the DAC2x is a little better). The MSB stack was, in my opinion, in my system, quite a bit superior to the EMM XDS1 (of course, it is more expensive as well). After I did that comparison, I actually purchased an MSB digital front end and I couldn't be happier with it.
If downloadable music files ever begin to encompass a clearly wider selection of high resolution music than well recorded SACD's or RBCD's, and the best method to accomplish playback actually becomes clear I'll take a closer look
. For now I'll just continue to immensely enjoy listening to physical music playback that sounds right to my ears.I am looking forward to watching this thread...a whole new generation of digital has come out which I find has step forward in quite a meaningful way with respect to digging out a whole new layer of information from digital...and at the same time managing to do so while retaining an organic quality of delivery. This digital includes: Metronome Kalista Ref/C2A, DCS Vivaldi. I have also been impressed by Stahl-Tek Vekian. I am told MSB, TotalDAC are also remarkable.
For me, nothing has gotten me to part with my beloved 4-box Zanden (although I did consider the Stahl-Tek Vekian original and DCS Scarlatti...both of which I had been offered by Dealers for a trade with my Zanden.) After listening however, I declined. The DCS Scarlatti has definitively more detail, as does the Stahl-Tek...but I prefer Zanden's tone to both and ability to show me nuance in the musical cues. (DCS Scarlatti on Halcyonics is an exception where that combination brings quite a lot to the table to compete with Zanden.)
Further, while the stock Zanden 4-box I have is latest spec circuitry...I have managed to apply a lot of experimentation in isolation and NOS tubes to move it significantly forward in strength and density of tone, along with substantial improvements in bass, transparency and 'speed' (less overhang/bleed of notes). The 'bones' of the Zanden are still SOTA for Redbook imho and with work like this, it shows. Specifically:
- Every box is isolated with either HRS M3/nimbus/couplers or Ultra 5s underneath PLUS HRS, Artesania or Ultra V dampers on top
- DAC PSU has Mullards and Sylvania NOS tubes
- DAC has Amperex 7308 + EAT tube damper
- PAD Dominus PCs
As for the latest digital generation, the DCS Vivaldi was another level in my initial estimation. While I still probably would not give up my Zanden...it is mainly because I have not spent enough time to make the definitive decision...and the Vivaldi costs 3x the Zanden brand new...let alone what I paid for my second hand set.
All my two cents as a self-confessed Zanden-phile. I respect the opinions of others here, and look forward to reading more.
For me, nothing has gotten me to part with my beloved 4-box Zanden (although I did consider the Stahl-Tek Vekian original and DCS Scarlatti...both of which I had been offered by Dealers for a trade with my Zanden.) After listening however, I declined. The DCS Scarlatti has definitively more detail, as does the Stahl-Tek...but I prefer Zanden's tone to both and ability to show me nuance in the musical cues. (DCS Scarlatti on Halcyonics is an exception where that combination brings quite a lot to the table to compete with Zanden.)
Further, while the stock Zanden 4-box I have is latest spec circuitry...I have managed to apply a lot of experimentation in isolation and NOS tubes to move it significantly forward in strength and density of tone, along with substantial improvements in bass, transparency and 'speed' (less overhang/bleed of notes). The 'bones' of the Zanden are still SOTA for Redbook imho and with work like this, it shows. Specifically:
- Every box is isolated with either HRS M3/nimbus/couplers or Ultra 5s underneath PLUS HRS, Artesania or Ultra V dampers on top
- DAC PSU has Mullards and Sylvania NOS tubes
- DAC has Amperex 7308 + EAT tube damper
- PAD Dominus PCs
As for the latest digital generation, the DCS Vivaldi was another level in my initial estimation. While I still probably would not give up my Zanden...it is mainly because I have not spent enough time to make the definitive decision...and the Vivaldi costs 3x the Zanden brand new...let alone what I paid for my second hand set.
All my two cents as a self-confessed Zanden-phile. I respect the opinions of others here, and look forward to reading more.
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If downloadable music files ever begin to encompass a clearly wider selection of high resolution music than well recorded SACD's or RBCD's, and the best method to accomplish playback actually becomes clear I'll take a closer look
Acquiring an MSN UMT plus transport and connect it to an MSB DAC via I2S would be an option. This setup will transmit DSD between transport and DAC for SACD...
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