Best turntable under 50k?

[mtemur]

Are you using the stock motor and controller with your Platine Verdier? If so you probably know the controller is just a simple voltage regulator and the platter speed can vary depending on thread tightness. Twenty years ago my Galibier table used the same voltage regulator circuit and, as good as the table sounded, it did not have rock solid speed stability. That all changed when Thom Mackris came up with a new design that uses a higher torque motor with a carefully designed servo controller. I believe Thom has fitted his motor/controller on Verdier tables in the past. You might want to contact Thom to discuss this.

I know it (simple voltage regulator) very well and stock motor and controller offers incredible w&f performance which is paramount. Low torque motor means less vibration transferred to platter and no servo means no kicks to the motor a couple of times in a second. Speed stability is also rock solid and only changes with the viscosity of bearing oil due to temperature. After all those years using Verdier table I noticed that after a 3 hour listening session 33.3rpm slightly increases to 33.4 which is unimportant and negligible. Nobody can detect the difference between 33.3 and 33.4rpm but a small increase in w&f can be noticeable. Additionally you can always adjust it with a smartphone in 20 seconds between Lp sides. I used to adjust it in 30 min intervals but I don't do it anymore.

Replacing stock motor and PSU with a high torque motor and servo controller is wrong and kills the magic. It may offer 33.3rpm even after a 3 hours listening session but that is not important. Because it can never offer great w&f as stock does. High torque motor and servo is the enemy of great performance. Just a handful of exceptions.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Yes, I think the Lamm is 430 ohms. Listening is always best, and it is easy and free.

I can say the black beauty sounds really good with the kylne 7px phono high gain setting 63db (500 or 1kohm )with 25khz filter.
Regarding the kylne, I can say that anyone who has this phono like this can safely forget searching for better one about it and spend their money on other things.

 

[Tangram]

You mean like audio research, Verity, or not have things repaired for years like Soulution? Tons of complaints on this forum on the “safe” big brands. Not to mention that vdh and Koetsu are big brands

Maybe you should stick to Wilson and SME then. Quite safe in that aspect

Or, not even bother having a stereo at all. That definitely solves the problem.

 

[DasguteOhr]

I know it (simple voltage regulator) very well and stock motor and controller offers incredible w&f performance which is paramount. Low torque motor means less vibration transferred to platter and no servo means no kicks to the motor a couple of times in a second. Speed stability is also rock solid and only changes with the viscosity of bearing oil due to temperature. After all those years using Verdier table I noticed that after a 3 hour listening session 33.3rpm slightly increases to 33.4 which is unimportant and negligible. Nobody can detect the difference between 33.3 and 33.4rpm but a small increase in w&f can be noticeable. Additionally you can always adjust it with a smartphone in 20 seconds between Lp sides. I used to adjust it in 30 min intervals but I don't do it anymore.

Replacing stock motor and PSU with a high torque motor and servo controller is wrong and kills the magic. It may offer 33.3rpm even after a 3 hours listening session but that is not important. Because it can never offer great w&f as stock does. High torque motor and servo is the enemy of great performance. Just a handful of exceptions.

There are others that work in a similar way, e.g. Nottingham Analogue Mentor high plattermass 70lbs.
The only difference is that it uses an AC synchronous motor. Later a sinewave & voltage stabilizer were added.
Really a nice turntable unfortunately, he never received the attention he deserved.

P.S the anna tonearm is the same league like a phantom

 

[Salectric]

I know it (simple voltage regulator) very well and stock motor and controller offers incredible w&f performance which is paramount. Low torque motor means less vibration transferred to platter and no servo means no kicks to the motor a couple of times in a second. Speed stability is also rock solid and only changes with the viscosity of bearing oil due to temperature. After all those years using Verdier table I noticed that after a 3 hour listening session 33.3rpm slightly increases to 33.4 which is unimportant and negligible. Nobody can detect the difference between 33.3 and 33.4rpm but a small increase in w&f can be noticeable. Additionally you can always adjust it with a smartphone in 20 seconds between Lp sides. I used to adjust it in 30 min intervals but I don't do it anymore.

Replacing stock motor and PSU with a high torque motor and servo controller is wrong and kills the magic. It may offer 33.3rpm even after a 3 hours listening session but that is not important. Because it can never offer great w&f as stock does. High torque motor and servo is the enemy of great performance. Just a handful of exceptions.

In principle I agree 100% with everything you said. However, Thom’s controller is not, in my experience, subject to those criticisms. When Thom described his new controller design several years ago, I was skeptical but I tried it knowing I could go back to the old design if I didn’t like it. That was not necessary. I was happy with the sound before, but I was even happier with the revised design.

 

[thekong]

I have not heard vdh cartridges below the Colibrí. An old friend gave me his Colibrí XPP that might be 10-15 years old. I might set it up this weekend to see how it compares to his newer designs. I understand the platinum windings are quite rare.

Hi Peter, I would be very interested in your comment on the XPP vs the current Colibris! I still have an XPP in my possession, and I still think it is one of the best cartridges for violin! Yet, to my ears, its mid bass is a bit lean. I have had some short auditions with the newer generations of the Colibris, and my impression is that VDH took care of the mid bass problem, certainly better all around cartridges, yet they are less airy in the highs. Of course, this may just be a matter of the stronger mid bass making the highs less prominent to the ears!

 

[bonzo75]

Hi Peter, I would be very interested in your comment on the XPP vs the current Colibris! I still have an XPP in my possession, and I still think it is one of the best cartridges for violin! Yet, to my ears, its mid bass is a bit lean. I have had some short auditions with the newer generations of the Colibris, and my impression is that VDH took care of the mid bass problem, certainly better all around cartridges, yet they are less airy in the highs. Of course, this may just be a matter of the stronger mid bass making the highs less prominent to the ears!

The Stradivarius was also excellent on the violin. Difficult to compare across models because of the inconsistency, and I don’t think he makes the carts anymore his son does.

 

[tima]

The Stradivarius was also excellent on the violin. Difficult to compare across models because of the inconsistency, and I don’t think he makes the carts anymore his son does.

Do you have any experience with vdH son made cartridges? Is there a way to tell the maker?
@shakti might know.

 

[bonzo75]

Do you have any experience with vdH son made cartridges? Is there a way to tell the maker?
@shakti might know.

Someone I know does have some because they were given to him by the son.

You can’t tell the maker by looking at the cartridge. But vdh himself is well over 80

Tang did tell me once that the cart I heard when I visited him 2018 was probably the best vdh he had. That in retrospect is not surprising

 

[PeterA]

Hi Peter, I would be very interested in your comment on the XPP vs the current Colibris! I still have an XPP in my possession, and I still think it is one of the best cartridges for violin! Yet, to my ears, its mid bass is a bit lean. I have had some short auditions with the newer generations of the Colibris, and my impression is that VDH took care of the mid bass problem, certainly better all around cartridges, yet they are less airy in the highs. Of course, this may just be a matter of the stronger mid bass making the highs less prominent to the ears!

Hello thekong, I am moving the Colibri cartridge discussion over to my Natural Sound system thread so that this thread stays on topic.

 

[Al Stewart]

I had a long talk with AJ Conti about belt technology and type when I visited him in his workshop once.

Hi Peter,
Did you listen to theAJ Conti's Basis Transcendence before you purchased David Karmeli’s turntable design? If so, I’d be interested in your impressions.

 

[PeterA]

Hi Peter,
Did you listen to theAJ Conti's Basis Transcendence before you purchased David Karmeli’s turntable design? If so, I’d be interested in your impressions.

Hello Al, Ron and I heard that table at Goodwins High End in Boston when Ron visited me a few years ago. I think it was Magico M3 speakers and solution or constellation or some monster solid-state amplifiers and lots of MIT cable.

I have no idea what was responsible for what, so all I could do was judge the system as a whole, and I was completely underwhelmed. Maybe it was the room, or the set up, but the system presentation in that room was extremely boring sounding.

What I can say is that I’ve heard the AS 2000 in three different systems, one with massive Pass Labs, amplifiers and big Wilson speakers and the others in Lamm vintage horn systems. Each time, those systems had a much more natural, balanced, and energetic sound with more information retrieval from the record grooves.

I should also say that I heard the AS 1000 in my own system for about a month before I bought the AS 2000, so I knew what I was buying. Neither the Basis or the American Sound turntable is under $50,000.

 

[PeterA]

Denon DP 45F from school days: