Best turntable under 50k?

[Frankie67]

Hi everyone. My current analog source is composed of an E.A.T. Forte S turntable with its E.A.T. “F” tonearm and a My Sonic Lab Signature Platinum cartridge, while the phono preamp is a D’Agostino Momentum.

I’m considering upgrading my current turntable to a reference level one having a max budget of 50k including tonearm (planning to trade my current turntable and tonearm to limit cash out).

A friend recommended the Bergmann Galder Signature with the Odin tonearm. Any other options? Of course, I need to audition them but I need help in shortlisting potential options.

Thanks.
F.

 

[jfrech]

I'd take a good look/listen at the Grand Prix Audio Monaco.

https://www.grandprixaudio.com/monaco-2-0

 

[Argonaut]

Perhaps pm @Mike Lavigne for his advice, he is currently running three turntables of disparate topology all around your ball park more or less,
For my part I would offer up Vyger , either the floor standing Indian or the rack mountable Atlantis https://www.vyger.com/products/

 

[bonzo75]

Hi everyone. My current analog source is composed of an E.A.T. Forte S turntable with its E.A.T. “F” tonearm and a My Sonic Lab Signature Platinum cartridge, while the phono preamp is a D’Agostino Momentum.

I’m considering upgrading my current turntable to a reference level one having a max budget of 50k including tonearm (planning to trade my current turntable and tonearm to limit cash out).

A friend recommended the Bergmann Galder Signature with the Odin tonearm. Any other options? Of course, I need to audition them but I need help in shortlisting potential options.

Thanks.
F.

I wouldn’t take the Galder. Lacks weight and drive.

Brinkmann balance is better than the Bergmann and very good.

i would personally go with the vyger at that or any amount above that, but depends on your profile, if you want multiple arms, you will have to work on it a bit, etc

CS port with the arm is under that amount, with the Tat2 you will get two arms for that amount.

Also this depends on the music you listen to, the type of records, and the rest of the system.

In 95% cases I would just get an idler with the DaVa, and you will get more mileage than spending on a table with another cartridge, and put that money into quality records which will make a lesser TT sound better than a better TT playing lower quality records.

 

[Frankie67]

I wouldn’t take the Galder. Lacks weight and drive.

Brinkmann balance is better than the Bergmann and very good.

i would personally go with the vyger at that or any amount above that, but depends on your profile, if you want multiple arms, you will have to work on it a bit, etc

CS port with the arm is under that amount, with the Tat2 you will get two arms for that amount.

Also this depends on the music you listen to, the type of records, and the rest of the system.

In 95% cases I would just get the idler with the DaVa, and you will get more mileage than spending on a table with another cartridge, and put that money into quality records which will make a lesser TT sound better than a better TT playing lower quality records.

Electronics are Gryphon Essence monos and Gryphon Pandora preamp and speakers are Wilson Audio Sasha DAW. Cables are all Transparent Audio Reference XP and Opus (speaker and IC).

I listen to pretty much all kinds of music genres, especially jazz, blues and rock. Some classical too, mostly chamber.

What do you mean when you say “get the idler with the DaVa”?

My plan is to keep my current cartridge, which I love.

thanks

 

[daytona600]

Vertere RG

 

[gestalt]

I'm clearly biased (heads up I'm a dealer) but I'd consider the TW Acustic Black Knight for your budget.

 

[PeterA]

 

[Mike Lavigne]

my direct drive Wave Kinetics NVS is hard to beat. likely could work out a nice arm plus the NVS within your budget. the footprint is workable, and the build quality is outstanding. great speed stability, low noise and musical flow. explosive and linear. gets out of the way of the music.

read Bonzo's comments about it.

my belt drive, air bearing, linear tracker CS Port LFT1M2 is also a great choice as is my Saskia idler too. although the Saskia is a hard tt to source. and you would have to wait for more than a year for one to be built to order.

 

[Walter66]

Wondering, who thinks that there is a best and only one best for everything.
It's a subjective thing, there are belt drives, there are direct drives and there are idler drive tables.
One can choose between plastic housing (cheap), metal housing (hard sound), natural/artificial stone/concrete/slate bases (all hard sounding) and there is wood housing (not neutral sounding). And the mix of all of them in one record player.

There are thousands of cartridge/ tonearm combinations out there that may work together good or bad.
There are options for tonearm bases made from all materials.
There are other options for motors, for different belts, for platter materials, for platter mat materials etc. pp.
I've seen record players that used a combination of five different materials for the platter alone (incl. platter mat).

This is like the question: which steak would taste the best? Do you prefer it raw, medium, medium raw, well done or done?

There is no such thing as a "best turntable". They all have their pros and cons.
And which of them one prefers or tolerate when it comes to cons, is very individual.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Hello Frankie,

Welcome to WBF!

Ultimately there likely is going to be a significant leap of faith involved in selecting a new turntable. It is unlikely that you will be able to compare, side-by-side, the Bergman Galder + Odin and the Air Force Three Premium + Graham Phantom Elite or some other competing combination.

Even if you could make this comparison you still would not be hearing, apples-to-apples, the Bergmann Galder by itself versus the AF3P or some other turntable by itself. For that comparison each turntable would need to have the same tonearm and the same cartridge, and both would have adjusted and aligned the same way on each turntable.

Only because there may be no better options in the case of turntables, perhaps reviews by Michael Fremer are more probative for turntables than is the case for other components.

How does one talk oneself into making such a leap of faith? Does one learn about turntable technical design? Does one learn about direct drive versus belt drive versus idler, and select a theoretical preference, and then look for turntables which use that drive system? Does one go by the visual and aesthetic machining and finishing quality of the product? Does one go by how it feels when you play with it and operate it? I think all of these non-scientific, non-audition-based factors get baked into the leap-of-faith cake.

The good news, for you, I think, is that the Bergmann Galder + Odin and numerous alternatives mentioned here are wonderful sources.

Specifically, I would encourage you to:

1) Read carefully the reviews by Michael Fremer of the turntables you are considering.

2) Read about various turntables in threads here on WBF discussing them.

3) See and hear them at dealers or at friends' houses and play with them and see if one of them attracts you in some way.

4) Assess which dealer will take seriously initial and ongoing responsibility for setting the turntable up and for aligning the cartridge. I feel that there are very few truly expert cartridge alignment specialists out there, and without proper cartridge alignment and turntable set-up you will not be realizing the sonic capability of which any of these vinyl replay set-ups is capable. Alternatively allocate in your budget a plan for somebody like Stirling Trayle to visit you on-site and adjust your cartridge expertly.

 

[adrianywu]

For me, idler drive is the way to go. I am very sensitive to the speed variations of belt drive turntables. I have used different versions of the Garrard 301 for more than 20 years, starting with an oil bearing original model, and then a grease bearing one, and then the Classic Turntable Company version: https://www.classichifi-shop.co.uk/
I have owned the Michell Orbe before that, and the Roksan Xerxes. After I compared the Orbe with the 301 over about 6 months at home, I sold my Orbe (with Graham 2.2). I am sorry to say that the belt drive turntable was a few notches below the 301 with SME 3012R in terms of what I find important, such as musical drive, bass power, image stability etc. The Classic 301 with new main bearing, platter and double thickness chassis is something else altogether. I have heard various modern "high end" turntable setups and they all miss something that the Classic 301 can do. It is a bargain considering how much SME charges for their "new original 301". And you will save a good $35K of your $50K budget ! Definitely worth taking a listen to a properly restored 301 (or Lenco) before you decide which turntable to buy.

 

[Gregadd]

 

[gleeds]

I'll offer up for consideration the Ars Machinae M1 from Germany (with my expected bias as the US importer). This statement turntable system includes the factory 12" Lingum arm, record weight and dedicated support plinth. Additional custom arm boards are available for a second arm. "Mobiusman", a regular contributor on WBF will be using a My Sonic Platinum on his new Ars Machinae rig. The Lingum arm includes on the fly VTA and among the most rigid integrated headshells ever produced.

A link to our M1 video is below if you want to get into the technical details. The US price including arm, base, record clamp, shipping and in home set-up is just under $40k.

What's Best Audio and Video Forum. The Best High End Audio Forum on the planet!

www.whatsbestforum.com

 

[Holmz]

Is anyone running a Galibier Stelvio mkII?

 

[jespera]

If you have to spend all that money get this

Shindo 301 Turntable Review

Life’s a Journey The first time I ever heard a Garrard 301 that I know of anyway, was when I was seventeen and a freshman at Baylor. I was trying to get a part time job at a Stereo Shop in Waco, Texas. When I entered the store their main system was playing. It [...]

www.dagogo.com

Spend the rest on sut and records.

A more economic solution would be to diy something similar. Based on garrard 301/401, pimped bearing platter, solid wood plinth, 3012r, ortofon or bokrand tonearm, ortofon spu or sl15, and a top vintage step up. jørgen schou for example.

 

[bonzo75]

If you have to spend all that money get this

Shindo 301 Turntable Review

Life’s a Journey The first time I ever heard a Garrard 301 that I know of anyway, was when I was seventeen and a freshman at Baylor. I was trying to get a part time job at a Stereo Shop in Waco, Texas. When I entered the store their main system was playing. It [...]

www.dagogo.com

Spend the rest on sut and records.

A more economic solution would be to diy something similar. Based on garrard 301/401, pimped bearing platter, solid wood plinth, 3012r, ortofon or bokrand tonearm, ortofon spu or sl15, and a top vintage step up. jørgen schou for example.

A friend had the Shindo 301, the Audiograil Garrard in BobC plinth was almost as good as he sold the Shindo off, and the Schopper TD 124 was better than both in his system, and he had the Tannoy Reds and the Golds.

 

[bonzo75]

Hi everyone. My current analog source is composed of an E.A.T. Forte S turntable with its E.A.T. “F” tonearm and a My Sonic Lab Signature Platinum cartridge, while the phono preamp is a D’Agostino Momentum.

I’m considering upgrading my current turntable to a reference level one having a max budget of 50k including tonearm (planning to trade my current turntable and tonearm to limit cash out).

A friend recommended the Bergmann Galder Signature with the Odin tonearm. Any other options? Of course, I need to audition them but I need help in shortlisting potential options.

Thanks.
F.

Which area are you located in? West Coast?

 

[Walter66]

A friend had the Shindo 301, the Audiograil Garrard in BobC plinth was almost as good as he sold the Shindo off, and the Schopper TD 124 was better than both in his system, and he had the Tannoy Reds and the Golds.

Sorry, but the TD124 isn't able to beat a full Shindo rig. My comparisons with Thorens idler drives are, that both, the Garrard and the Thorens are sounding different. The fully equipped Shindo system is a one of a kind record player, even an EMT 927 can "beat" it only in some diciplines, but not in tone quality. This is, because the Shindo plinth is so unique and the whole Shindo 301 has so many parts optimized like Ken Shindo wanted them to sound, it's impossible to achieve this sound with any other idler player system. The Schopper system misses the Shindo plinth made from cherry wood, it misses the Shindo Meursault tonearm, it misses the Shindo modified SPU cartrigde and many other things that makes the Shindo a unique experience. Everyone who tellsl the Schopper would beat a Shindo 301 just doesn't tell the whole story.

 

[jespera]

A friend had the Shindo 301, the Audiograil Garrard in BobC plinth was almost as good as he sold the Shindo off, and the Schopper TD 124 was better than both in his system, and he had the Tannoy Reds and the Golds.

We’ve had that idler rumble before:

As much as i like the td124, and i very much do, i wouldnt swap my cheapscape pretend shindo 301 or my ptp lenco for one. Not even my friend’s shoppered one.

It is down to personal preference and musical taste. If youre more into violins and classical than me, then i could imagine that you could be otherwise inclined.