Breaking news from DCS….

[microstrip]

I also agree with Jeff such that for critical listening, sacd playback via transport is still slightly superior vs hirez audio.

I have posted the same opinion before - my preference for SACDs . However it must be said that I only compared physical SACD with the same recoding at 96/24 - I could not get an higher resolution file of the recording.

None of the files I have in DXD exists in SACD, so the test physical/ virtual is still incomplete. Playing files stored in the Extreme sounds better than Qobuz streaming, but not by a wide margin.

 

[Lee]

I have posted the same opinion before - my preference for SACDs . However it must be said that I only compared physical SACD with the same recoding at 96/24 - I could not get an higher resolution file of the recording.

None of the files I have in DXD exists in SACD, so the test physical/ virtual is still incomplete. Playing files stored in the Extreme sounds better than Qobuz streaming, but not by a wide margin.

I also have a preference for SACDs from listening.

I have recording around four dozen classical string ensembles in DSD and 24/192 or 24/176 PCM using a mic splitter off AKG 414-BULS microphones. The DSD files created from the Korg always sound better than the PCM files created from the Sound Devices box.

With some exceptions for masterings and the like, DSD sounds more analog to my ears.

 

[Daverich4]

I have posted the same opinion before - my preference for SACDs . However it must be said that I only compared physical SACD with the same recoding at 96/24 - I could not get an higher resolution file of the recording

It’s relatively easy to rip your SACDs to DSD 64. There are a number of OPPO and Pioneer players that will do it. I’ve ripped more than 100 of my own SACDS using this method.

SACD Ripping using an Oppo or Pioneer? Yes, it's true!

Note: I told the PS3 thread I would announce what I've found, so I am writing this first post, long before I am ready to (i.e I don't have the links ready yet, nor the instructions). I expect my second post to be ready in a few more days. Thanks to some very ingenious folks on other forums around...

audiophilestyle.com

 

[microstrip]

Today I managed to travel to our dCS distributor to listen to the Apex Vivaldi. It was being used in the same large room where the WAMMs were demoed , but this time hosting the the Alexx V driven by Dartzeel NH 468's with an Audio Research REF6e preamplfiier. Power cabling by Nordost, signal cable by Transparent. I have long experience with this room, having spent many afternoons and even nights there listening to many systems.

We listened to Qobuz via Mosaic, no server or physical media, focusing mainly in recordings that I often use for evaluation and have listened in life presentations, such as - Savall "Routes de l'Esclavage" and his Beethoven symphonies, as well as some non classical music, all in 88/24 or 96/24. The dCS system included the Vivaldi clock and upsampler.

Nothing could prepare me to improvement noticed in the recordings I know well. Much more real detail - not exactly in more instruments, but in the way they sound and are being played, as well in their integration in the overall, and an easiness that I have never listened before in stereo. The feeling that I have been there was really fascinating, recreating visual images of events that happened long ago. Voices were more rich and natural (in the sense that have been used by the majority of reviewers during many decades) than with the previous version of the Vivaldi. The characteristic sound of early 19th century instruments was rendered with perfection without any excesses.

No words can explain the difference, other than making the usual hyperbolic comments. IMHO it is not closer to top vinyl, on the contrary - it walks away from vinyl artifacts.

Unfortunately my time was limited and I could not listen to jazz and piano - a new trip will be needed soon, while waiting for the upgrade of my DAC. But I am really happy that the upgrade is possible and will be carried soon.

 

[LL21]

Great news, Micro and great listening notes. Do you think that the naturalness, ease you experienced was largely the Apex? Entirely Apex (because the original Vivaldi was on hand to compare)...or was it also 468/Alexx V? I have no doubt the Apex is is far better...DCS do not sit on their hands, and the Vivaldi has been around as a leading digital system for a long time, so I could imagine DCS have moved forward quite a lot.

That said, was wondering if you came away thinking about this improvement as largely Apex or largely a showing of 'next generation high end audio'.

 

[microstrip]

Great news, Micro and great listening notes. Do you think that the naturalness, ease you experienced was largely the Apex? Entirely Apex (because the original Vivaldi was on hand to compare)...or was it also 468/Alexx V? I have no doubt the Apex is is far better...DCS do not sit on their hands, and the Vivaldi has been around as a leading digital system for a long time, so I could imagine DCS have moved forward quite a lot.

That said, was wondering if you came away thinking about this improvement as largely Apex or largely a showing of 'next generation high end audio'.

I had listened to the Alexx V and Dartzeels, as well as the WAMM's with the dCS Vivaldi before, using the same and similar recordings and it was quite different from what I listened in this session.

The type of improvement I found and reported with the WAMM's using the old Vivaldi was more in line with the absence of artifacts and sounding palpable in 3D than what I experienced today.

You should visit Ricardo soon!

 

[LL21]

Thanks, Micro! Wow...that is the answer then. It was all Apex Vivaldi. Great news! When does your upgrade arrive?

 

[Sampajanna]

Does anyone know upgrade price in the States?

 

[LL21]

I think JFrech mentioned $10K earlier in this thread?

 

[Sampajanna]

Thx!

 

[jfrech]

I think JFrech mentioned $10K earlier in this thread?

I don't remember exactly but just under 10k my dealer said with shipping. I should know exactly soon since I have to pay him

 

[jfrech]

Today I managed to travel to our dCS distributor to listen to the Apex Vivaldi. It was being used in the same large room where the WAMMs were demoed , but this time hosting the the Alexx V driven by Dartzeel NH 468's with an Audio Research REF6e preamplfiier. Power cabling by Nordost, signal cable by Transparent. I have long experience with this room, having spent many afternoons and even nights there listening to many systems.

We listened to Qobuz via Mosaic, no server or physical media, focusing mainly in recordings that I often use for evaluation and have listened in life presentations, such as - Savall "Routes de l'Esclavage" and his Beethoven symphonies, as well as some non classical music, all in 88/24 or 96/24. The dCS system included the Vivaldi clock and upsampler.

Nothing could prepare me to improvement noticed in the recordings I know well. Much more real detail - not exactly in more instruments, but in the way they sound and are being played, as well in their integration in the overall, and an easiness that I have never listened before in stereo. The feeling that I have been there was really fascinating, recreating visual images of events that happened long ago. Voices were more rich and natural (in the sense that have been used by the majority of reviewers during many decades) than with the previous version of the Vivaldi. The characteristic sound of early 19th century instruments was rendered with perfection without any excesses.

No words can explain the difference, other than making the usual hyperbolic comments. IMHO it is not closer to top vinyl, on the contrary - it walks away from vinyl artifacts.

Unfortunately my time was limited and I could not listen to jazz and piano - a new trip will be needed soon, while waiting for the upgrade of my DAC. But I am really happy that the upgrade is possible and will be carried soon.

I was a 90% vinyl guy before my original dCS Vivaldi. After the original Vivaldi I'd say 50/50, through the years and upgrades, I'm at least 80% digital listening. I still love vinyl, but more for the software I have than the love of the format. Micro, thanks for posting, these is similar to what my dealer is saying, he got his Vivaldi Apex last week...

 

[Sa683s]

Finally we went to do A/B/A test between Apex & Original Vivaldi. 3 out of 4 friends paid to upgrade before hearing, as dCS have a long & good reputation. Leaving 1 friend want to hear before making decision. We first hear the Apex, sound stage and details immediately can tell is another level , once back to original Vivaldi the difference become more. Sound stage , details , transparency, bass control , it just better in every corner. My friend immediately ask if can pay deposit for upgrade. Haha. Once you hear, there is no escape.

 

[JARedmond]

Does anyone know upgrade price in the States?

My local dealer quoted $9000 for upgrade at the dealer, in May.

 

[PeterA]

IMHO an excellent deal to current dCS Vivaldi owners - the full system lists for more than one hundred thousand, and we are able to improve a top machine getting SOTA status again for less than 10% of that value.

Fransisco, how do you define state of the art in this context? Compared to other contenders like the Horizon and Wadax or some other way? Is the dCS considered SOTA? People say that about the Wadax, but is it just a personal opinion or a general consensus?

 

[microstrip]

Fransisco, how do you define state of the art in this context? Compared to other contenders like the Horizon and Wadax or some other way? Is the dCS considered SOTA? People say that about the Wadax, but is it just a personal opinion or a general consensus?

Peter,

A subjective answer - IMHO SOTA needs some general consensus - but not unanimity surely. IMHO in order to get SOTA status some equipment needs to have a significant number of individual opinions that it reaches such status and some time to anchor it.

In the absence of a poll with a significant number of opinions - WBF has small number of frequent active participants - SOTA becomes just a local honorific tittle. In the case of the Vivaldi fortunately it seems we have a reasonable number of members owning it or having direct experience of it.

BTW I am not interest in hypothetical imaginary comparisons. People in WBF know my preferences and biases, they can easily imagine the outcome ... But I am always happy to listen to alternatives, it is part of the hobby. All IMHO, YMMV.

 

[PeterA]

Peter,

A subjective answer - IMHO SOTA needs some general consensus - but not unanimity surely. IMHO in order to get SOTA status some equipment needs to have a significant number of individual opinions that it reaches such status and some time to anchor it.

In the absence of a poll with a significant number of opinions - WBF has small number of frequent active participants - SOTA becomes just a local honorific tittle. In the case of the Vivaldi fortunately it seems we have a reasonable number of members owning it or having direct experience of it.

BTW I am not interest in hypothetical imaginary comparisons. People in WBF know my preferences and biases, they can easily imagine the outcome ... But I am always happy to listen to alternatives, it is part of the hobby. All IMHO, YMMV.

So we are to rely on your comment in your post that “…we are able to improve a top machine getting SOTA status again….“. I only ask, because this is brand new and you have declared it.

I am simply an observer from afar but as such I am finding it quite interesting that we have three new DACs in short order each claiming to reach new heights, if not also setting a new standard. I suspect they sound quite different from each other, though I cannot be sure, which would mean that the state of the art represents different interpretations.

It must be an exciting time to be a digital music enthusiastic with many many choices and advances in technology. I heard the old Rossini ones and compared it to some other DACs and it was by far my favorite. I then heard the Vivaldi and really enjoyed it in a familiar system.

Congratulations on your upgrade. I agree with you that it seems to be a pretty good value for such a remarkable improvement.

 

[Lee]

So we are to rely on your comment in your post that “…we are able to improve a top machine getting SOTA status again….“. I only ask, because this is brand new and you have declared it.

I am simply an observer from afar but as such I am finding it quite interesting that we have three new DACs in short order each claiming to reach new heights, if not also setting a new standard. I suspect they sound quite different from each other, though I cannot be sure, which would mean that the state of the art represents different interpretations.

It must be an exciting time to be a digital music enthusiastic with many many choices and advances in technology. I heard the old Rossini ones and compared it to some other DACs and it was by far my favorite. I then heard the Vivaldi and really enjoyed it in a familiar system.

Congratulations on your upgrade. I agree with you that it seems to be a pretty good value for such a remarkable improvement.

Here is my take…if you are a computer guy. APEX is the M1 chip of dCS. It’s a step change in sound quality.

It’s hard to judge Vivaldi APEX versus the Wadax but I heard that the non-APEX Vivaldi measured better than the Wadax. But we know that measurements don’t tell the whole story…or is it a good level of insight if the dCS has better linearity?

And the linearity of the APEX is 12db better?

A Wadax vs. Vivaldi APEX shootout would be interesting…both seem really good. The Wadax at Capitol Audio Fest sounded really good. But so did the Rossini APEX At hifibuys. I need to hear the Vivaldi APEX still.

 

[ALF]

 

[jfrech]

View attachment 90789

SWEET !!!