Brinkmann Balance/ Kuzma 4P
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hi, the BB is using a four phase motor with 500 grams flywheel. considering that there is no Speed feedback and auto speed correction the speed is very stable (see video Below )
I wanted very much to use the BLDC Rim drive but it’s incompatible with the height of BB. I have searched the option to have a BLDC pod fabricated to match the Balance’s belt groove and again it’s very difficult.
Check the Balance’s speed stability here:
the Balance’s speed stability is reflected through the AM wow/flutter measurements i made, which are really low for a belt tt:
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Looks close to perfect ! But the most important aspect is the sound anyway, the momentum of the flywheel is probably part of that great sound.
Looks close to perfect ! But the most important aspect is the sound anyway, the momentum of the flywheel is probably part of that great sound.
I have spoken with Helmut Brinkmann quite some times about it, and he told me that the Motor’s flywheel with the platter’s high mass (thus high inertia) is contributing to the speed stability.
its impressive of how long it takes, for the platter to stop spinning, after switching off the motor.
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The bearing is superb as well, and I wonder about the contribution of the heater. I suspect it does make a difference.
I'm also a bit interested in the function of the flywheel at a few hundred grams when used in conjunction with this massive platter of, what, 20 kg or so. Did Helmut explain it?
I'm also a bit interested in the function of the flywheel at a few hundred grams when used in conjunction with this massive platter of, what, 20 kg or so. Did Helmut explain it?
Dear Brian
the specific bearing consists of the heart of this smooth and stable (resonance /noise/vibration free) rotation.
also the temperature controlled bearing is permitting tight tolerances and performance stability from the beginning of each listening session without the need of any warming up.
Its a maintenance free construction.
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Hi,
Congrats on your TT. Really impressive numbers there!
You often hear people talking about AC motors being “more musical” - I wonder if that is a manifestation of the introduction of resonance artefacts like you observed here. Would love to see another AC TT being measured using the exact same software.
Had you ever considered trying a LT arm on the BB? A Bergmann Odin might be a very intriguing and decent value proposition.
Enjoy. Would love to own one of these too.
Congrats on your TT. Really impressive numbers there!
You often hear people talking about AC motors being “more musical” - I wonder if that is a manifestation of the introduction of resonance artefacts like you observed here. Would love to see another AC TT being measured using the exact same software.
Had you ever considered trying a LT arm on the BB? A Bergmann Odin might be a very intriguing and decent value proposition.
Enjoy. Would love to own one of these too.
Hi Bill,
I am a bit sceptical when I hear the description 'more musical' . Over the years I have seen that this description is often related with induced vibrations, resonances and or noise.
I have experienced this with some speakers I used to have as well as with some tt i used to own.
I have some thoughts on tonearms but its something that i will consider after the summer.
I am trying first to find the cartridge that I will fall in love with
Be well my friend
I am a bit sceptical when I hear the description 'more musical' . Over the years I have seen that this description is often related with induced vibrations, resonances and or noise.
I have experienced this with some speakers I used to have as well as with some tt i used to own.
I have some thoughts on tonearms but its something that i will consider after the summer.
I am trying first to find the cartridge that I will fall in love with
Be well my friend
My sense is that the less vibrations/resonance the better...
http://www.vpiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14369
Pretty darn good. I would imagine you could get it even better with a feedback loop if you can get the Eagle/Condor/RR to work with the Brinkman. Should be able to get it to approach the Technics 1200's wow & flutter of +/- 0.035% peak, although that is measured under IEC 98A weighted, while AnalogMagik measures under AES 6-2008.
I would agree with you. My question is more whether AC motors as a class induce more noise and resonance that is perceived as musicality.
The designer of Balance, Helmut Brinkmann, doesn't like the closed loop idea. The speed as you see is very stable, in an all analogue configuration.
Sonically this turntable is light years ahead from my previous tt.
I sent yesterday two videos of the same record (Fred Hunt Trio, Yesterdays, 1979) to 10 friends of mine, two of them happens to be well known members of this forum.
the First video was Brinkmann Balance + Kuzma 4P+ Lyra Etna (Classic) while the second was VPI Avenger Reference Rim Drive+ Kuzma 4P + Lyra Etna (Classic). In addition the VPI was controlled through Phoenix Engineering Eagle and Roadrunner.
all the rest of the system is identical including the room.
The videos were blackened, therefore only the sound could be heard and were captured with iPhone 11 Pro Max.
all of them without hesitation have chosen BB sound as being fuller and way better that VPI. Two of them wrote me that on VPI video the microphone must have an issue. 8 of them additionally commended of the bass better definition.
Six of them wrote me that it’s unbelievable the difference that BB introduced
the First video was Brinkmann Balance + Kuzma 4P+ Lyra Etna (Classic) while the second was VPI Avenger Reference Rim Drive+ Kuzma 4P + Lyra Etna (Classic). In addition the VPI was controlled through Phoenix Engineering Eagle and Roadrunner.
all the rest of the system is identical including the room.
The videos were blackened, therefore only the sound could be heard and were captured with iPhone 11 Pro Max.
all of them without hesitation have chosen BB sound as being fuller and way better that VPI. Two of them wrote me that on VPI video the microphone must have an issue. 8 of them additionally commended of the bass better definition.
Six of them wrote me that it’s unbelievable the difference that BB introduced
Yeah, it wasn't even close. When you sent the recordings, I wasn't aware that two different turntables were in play. I figured there was a microphone problem with the second recording. BB was clearly an easy purchase for you, S. And probably one of the most profound changes you've made in a long time in terms of its impact.
That's great speed stability. I have a TW Acustic Raven Anniversary (belt drive) with the 3 DC motor (single unit) hooked up to a Roadrunner speed tachometer. It's a somewhat higher mass design than the BB. I do notice more speed variability until the turntable runs for a half hour or so. The heated bearing design of the Brinkmann is certainly a worthwhile design characteristic.
Once warmed up, sometimes it's stable, but I generally see more variation, + or - .002 over a 20 second period than your showing. Don't have AM (yet) so have no other numbers. It's possible I might get more stability with the battery powered version of the motor controller, but I don't really know. Maybe someone else can chime in.
Once warmed up, sometimes it's stable, but I generally see more variation, + or - .002 over a 20 second period than your showing. Don't have AM (yet) so have no other numbers. It's possible I might get more stability with the battery powered version of the motor controller, but I don't really know. Maybe someone else can chime in.
hi Barry,
I have auditioned TW Acoustics in the past and I understand your observation.
In my humble opinion, controlling three DC (not BLDC) motors is a very difficult task.
I am speaking with Marc Gomez for some days now for a SAT tonearm, among others he wrote me ....The CF1-09 on a Balance will be one of the best sounding combinations available today....
I'm looking forward to learning how the 4P sounds relative to the mighty SAT.
I've meant to ask ... Don't know if you've tried your BB off the HRS platform. Do you have a sense what it contributes?
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