Burmester 911 mk3

Having used the 911 as a reference amplifier now for over three years with about 100 different pairs of speakers, I can't say I agree with the silver cable choice. As always, I'd suggest a demo in your speakers with your system, but I prefer Cardas Clear or Shunyata cable to the silver cables. For what this stuff costs, make sure and get a demo to see if it's to your liking.

I've found the 911 to be relatively forgiving of different cable compared to a few other things I've tried, that's one of the reasons I like the amplifier so much.

Over the past couple of days, I'd tested the burmester silver speaker cables, my own homemade silver cables and the dealer's proprietary cables (made from clearaudio's copper cables). Of these, the best one is the one made by my dealer. At the dealer's showroom, his cables bested the likes of siltech, shunyata and even the mighty valhalla.
Currently, I'm using the dealer's cables and they are superb. He only sells them to buyers of the equipment he sells. So far, I agree with tonepub that copper cables seem best with burmester amps.
 
On another note, I've read that running amps in mono mode doubles the wattage but halves the current delivery. Is it true? If that is so, wouldn't biamping be better (vertically or horizontally)?

No, it will not halve the current. Getting a number for power is not so easy. AFAIK running the amps in mono will double the max voltage you can get and keep the maximum current at the same value. What happens to power will depend on your speakers impedance. In extreme cases of no current limitation the power can be increased four fold - the big Krells could do it. Saying it doubles the power is a rule of thumb for average situations. But maximum power is just the tip of the iceberg - operating in bridge mode can have benefice in sound quality and the gain increases.
 
Francisco,
Thanks for the explanation. My amps are getting better by the hour. So far, I'm extremely happy with them in mono mode. The 911s are extremely fast and when I play the Michael Jackson "Ones" cd, I could literally see MJ dancing and singing in front of me!
 
No, it will not halve the current. Getting a number for power is not so easy. AFAIK running the amps in mono will double the max voltage you can get and keep the maximum current at the same value. What happens to power will depend on your speakers impedance. In extreme cases of no current limitation the power can be increased four fold - the big Krells could do it. Saying it doubles the power is a rule of thumb for average situations. But maximum power is just the tip of the iceberg - operating in bridge mode can have benefice in sound quality and the gain increases.

Is there any effect on the damping factor when run in mono? Heard that this is also halved but could also be misinformation.
 
Francisco,
Thanks for the explanation. My amps are getting better by the hour. So far, I'm extremely happy with them in mono mode. The 911s are extremely fast and when I play the Michael Jackson "Ones" cd, I could literally see MJ dancing and singing in front of me!

I am soooooo glad you are happy. They really are great amps. I heard they should work quite well with my Conrad Johnson GAT as well. This is going to be fun.
 
I am soooooo glad you are happy. They really are great amps. I heard they should work quite well with my Conrad Johnson GAT as well. This is going to be fun.

Joe, you've got yourself an excellent preamp in the GAT. It should easily be the equal of the Ref40. If the 40 had been better looking, I might have bought it. Sure hope your GAT works well with the 911s.
As for me, I'm already loosing sleep. Have been running the amps for 16 hours today.
 
Joe, you've got yourself an excellent preamp in the GAT. It should easily be the equal of the Ref40. If the 40 had been better looking, I might have bought it. Sure hope your GAT works well with the 911s.
As for me, I'm already loosing sleep. Have been running the amps for 16 hours today.

Reading your excitement makes my heart warm. If the GAT does not do what I want with the 911's, I still have the 077 w/ ext. ps so it's not like I'll have any trouble. I dearly love my GAT and will be thrilled it the GAT/911mk3 mono combo sounds like I hope it will.

Now get some rest. Ha!
 
Reading your excitement makes my heart warm. If the GAT does not do what I want with the 911's, I still have the 077 w/ ext. ps so it's not like I'll have any trouble. I dearly love my GAT and will be thrilled it the GAT/911mk3 mono combo sounds like I hope it will.

Not sleeping yet. The Holland / Portugal game will be on in half an hour's time. I know in the US, you guys are not that crazy over soccer but we do over here. Oh yeah, I forgot about your 077. I'm sure you'll soon have great fun with your mono 911s.
 
Reading your excitement makes my heart warm. If the GAT does not do what I want with the 911's, I still have the 077 w/ ext. ps so it's not like I'll have any trouble. I dearly love my GAT and will be thrilled it the GAT/911mk3 mono combo sounds like I hope it will.

Not sleeping yet. The Holland / Portugal game will be on in half an hour's time. I know in the US, you guys are not that crazy over soccer but we do over here. Oh yeah, I forgot about your 077. I'm sure you'll soon have great fun with your mono 911s.

Enjoy the game. We are starting to acquire a taste for the sport over here. These guys are great athletes and are remarkably talented.
 
Gary, glad to know that you are well now. One of the risks of this hobby is back injury due carrying all these heavy amps around. Just be more careful in future. I've had my fair share of back problems due to moving amps around.
On another note, I've read that running amps in mono mode doubles the wattage but halves the current delivery. Is it true? If that is so, wouldn't biamping be better (vertically or horizontally)?

Yeah - I keep saying that I'll make lighter gear. When I went to class D for the Genesis Reference amps, I thought that was the solution. Before them, my amps were tube, and with two humongous transformers (power supply and output), the monoblocks weighed nearly 40lbs each. Well, I managed to make nice, light amps..... unfortunately the power supplies weighed 40lbs each. *sigh!*

When you run solid-state amps in mono mode, what you are doing is reversing the phase on one channel, and running both channels in anti-phase. This means that the maximum swing voltage is effectively doubled. Since power = voltage squared times resistance (P = V^2 * R) and each channel still delivers the same voltage both channels in anti-phase delivers twice the voltage and you get effectively 4 times the power into the same load.

To get 100W into 8 ohms, you need an amplifier with a voltage capability of about 28 V. So, if you bridge them and deliver 56 V, you effectively get 4 times the power. Since I = V/R you also get twice the current.

That's the simple answer..... assuming perfect power supplies. Unfortunately, the damping factor is also affected as damping is simply load impedance divided by source impedance. For example, if the speaker is 8 ohm and the output impedance of the amplifier is 0.01 ohm, then you have a damping factor of 800. Two channels of the amplifier in series will add the two output impedance together, and that bridging will result in halving the damping factor (not good). However, if the two channels of the amplifier share the same power supply, having two channels in anti-phase almost doubles the effectiveness of the power supply since most of the power draw is in the bass, and bass is almost always mono (especially if the source is vinyl).

With tube amps, you have the possibility of paralleling the channels, instead of bridging. This results in the same potential voltage swing, so no increase in power, but you get a halving of output impedance (two output transformers in parallel) and hence a doubling of damping factor.
 
Thf99 said:
(...) Not sleeping yet. The Holland / Portugal game will be on in half an hour's time. I know in the US, you guys are not that crazy over soccer but we do over here. Oh yeah, I forgot about your 077. I'm sure you'll soon have great fun with your mono 911s.

We are only supposed to play against Germany in a few hours - otherwise I would not be typing now! :D
 
Having used the 911 as a reference amplifier now for over three years with about 100 different pairs of speakers, I can't say I agree with the silver cable choice. As always, I'd suggest a demo in your speakers with your system, but I prefer Cardas Clear or Shunyata cable to the silver cables. For what this stuff costs, make sure and get a demo to see if it's to your liking.

I've found the 911 to be relatively forgiving of different cable compared to a few other things I've tried, that's one of the reasons I like the amplifier so much.

I own the 911's monos from 2008 and from that time up to now I had chance to phisically demo with my B80's a full set of Shunyata Anaconda, Cardas Reference, MIT, Transparent, Acrolink, Kubala-Sosna Emotion and Elation, Cableless (Italian Manufacture), XLO and Nordost.

In my system the Burmester Silver (loudspeaker cable set by 3 mt; Burmester Silver XLR; Burmester Power Cord 2.5 Silver) was the best choice at my ears for almost 3 years. After only Nordost top (valhalla & odin) was far better, maintaining the same and extreme neutrality of Burmester sound without adding no colorations. At that point I choice them.

P.S.: The Burmester silver cable has a big sense, because internally the 911's is cabled with same silver cable and then the B80's (same for B50's and B100's) has the mid-high units cabled with silver cable.

Here below you' find a video with Dieter Burmester inteview concerning the concept of cabling:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHOTcf-rOj8&feature=relmfu
 
Again, that's why a demo in YOUR system is so important. I share your enthusiasm for Burmester, but I've heard that combination and it's way too forward sounding for my taste. That doesn't mean your choice is bad or wrong. Everyone perceives sound differently, and while we can argue forever about what's best, it really comes down to what you enjoy at the end of the day. If Odin makes you happy that's the choice you should go with.
 
Again, that's why a demo in YOUR system is so important. I share your enthusiasm for Burmester, but I've heard that combination and it's way too forward sounding for my taste. That doesn't mean your choice is bad or wrong. Everyone perceives sound differently, and while we can argue forever about what's best, it really comes down to what you enjoy at the end of the day. If Odin makes you happy that's the choice you should go with.

Exactly,

I am not a fan of silver cables but I confess I have not heard them all or the best. I am not a fan of bright or forward sound and need to look for great copper based cables. My preference for sound seems to mirror Jeff (Tonepub). It will be a while, but I will eventually like to try cables other than my Transparent Supers for my system.
 
Gary, you mentioned Dumping Factor in your above post.
And I know for a fact that some speakers (more than others) luv a high 'dump' factor from the amps; what is your take please? ...On having tighter control over the drivers. ...Push-pull-stop.
 
Gary, you mentioned Dumping Factor in your above post.
And I know for a fact that some speakers (more than others) luv a high 'dump' factor from the amps; what is your take please? ...On having tighter control over the drivers. ...Push-pull-stop.

Damping factor actually.

Wikipedia covers it pretty well. In short: "A high damping factor indicates that an amplifier will have greater control over the movement of the speaker cone, particularly in the bass region near the resonant frequency of the driver's mechanical resonance."

The 911 has one of the highest damping factors of any amp available which is why I was personally first drawn to it. It's hard to top in terms of bass performance.
 

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