Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?
- Thread starter ScottK
- Start date
My reaction. Another D vs A thread with the same things being said that have been stated so many times before. And what is missing, again, is a discussion of why we listen to music in the first place regardless of format. There seems to be an obsession with the messenger vs the message. Oh well.
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Well, If serious listeners who are intimately familiar with live unamplified acoustic sound could directly compare a Wadax and Zanden using the very best acoustic cds and high order dsd recordings to a TechDAS Air Force Zero with the most transparent tonearm, cartridge and phonostage playing the best acoustic direct to disc pressings, they may actually have a chance of resolving this issue.
effectively i do that every day. and one better, i have my Ampex ATR-102 with MR 70 preamps too. plenty of effective SOTA analog gear and media.
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Perhaps we can return to your original post and origin of this thread.
You prefer the sound of your vinyl playback by a certain amount which you refer to as about 10%. Your question is: can you buy top digital for lots of money and enjoy it as much as your current vinyl playback? Or should you wait because the technology is rapidly improving, or so some think.
I think the only way you can answer this question is to contact a dealer and try to get those DACs into your system, listen to your favorite music for as long as you can keep the units, and make a decision based on whatever criteria you use.
Absent that, you will just have endless speculation and arguments as demonstrated in this thread. Ron, has made the claim that the latest digital tech with Hi-Rez stored files basically sounds as good as his vinyl with the standard being “ his suspension of disbelief”. His sample set is eight days of listening to his digital versus his vintage turntable. That is a lot different from your digital and your vinyl and your standard.
We each have our preferences and when you ask for advice, you will hear people talking about their preferences. It sounds to me like you have some auditioning to do so that you can answer this question for yourself.
As an aside, I was just sent a video of some vintage gear in a bedroom system with a cheap old digital CD player. It was some of the most natural convincing sound I’ve ever heard from the system video. Everything was just sitting on the floor with cheap wires and extension cords and I could not believe the quality of the sound.
Based on that video, I’m not sure I would be searching for the latest and greatest DACs.
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Well, Peter, we learned that people who do not close their eyes when listening are supposed to dislike music ...
In fact our current discussion about these matters in WBF is much narrow minded and circumspect that the discussions in the rec.audio.xxx newsgroups around 2000. At that time we had the active participation of sound engineers and reports of experiences they had carried, including the use of mic feeds. The debate was very active in paper magazines, unfortunately this information is not easily accessible today.
Current the debate focus on expensive gear, listening fatigue, headaches and individual preferences of aged audiophiles - surely of interest, but a limited perspective. Many feelings, but little data.
Which is why I insist that all such comparisons must be measured against a reliable reference.
Feelings and subjective opinions be damned.
That might answer the question for those “chosen ones.” But it does nothing to answer the question for anyone else. Frankly I don’t think it will answer the question for all of those few. They will not agree in general.
You have to answer the question for yourself. No one else can answer it for you. Not even the arrogant who insist that they can.
If we understand the nearly 100 year old study on human hearing sensitivity by Fletcher and Munson, we quickly realize that there is not a unique human hearing profile. People hear differently. People process sound waves according to their own physiological and psychological construction.
Once this is understood, arguing about this stuff can only be for the purpose of convincing everyone else that you own the ultimate set of ears and that all listeners should bow before their undeniably perfect choices.
Most of the time the arguments will be poorly received, as evidenced by the responses in this thread.
Yes. I agree with premise of what you state here. My original intent was to present the mostly unanimous findings of a private test involving some of the most revered industry insiders (who will remain unmentioned), and let the chips fall where they may.
Also, the Fletcher Munson curve only deals with the coarse physical limitations of the human hearing mechanism, while ignoring the intellectual aspect of it which is far more relevant to our actual level of hearing acuity.
I agree with your reference of live unamplified instruments and voice.
Wow, what are the requirements to become a serious listener?
A lot more than people realize, and I don't want to offend anyone here, but the majority of those engaged in this hobby simply don't hear well enough to truly qualify (which isn't necessary to enjoy the fruits of it).
I once did a company wide survey of hearing with the goal to develop a volume control algorithm that took loundness and frequency into account. The participants sat in front of a calibrated speaker and matched the volumes of pilot tones to probe tone with a handheld contoller. Two of the participants did give perceptual curves similar to the Fletcher Munson curves. All participants showed the hearing sensitivity bump at around 2Khz. The rest of the approximately 12 participants had widely divergent high and low frequency perception with respect to volume. All the way from flat perception with accurate volume perception, to one participant who couldn't reach appropriate bass levels for themselves because the amp ran out of power. One participant could even accurately match pilot tones at all volume levels tested to 23Khz which was the limit of the test I had prepared. I estimate her hearing to have extended past 24Khz. In the end with so much variation I gave up on the idea of combining volume control with frequency response adjustment.
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