Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?

[christoph]

OK. Instead of try to insist that digital can sound like analog, maybe we should all except that it doesn't.

It's no secret by now that I don't get along with the sound of digital, as I am sensitive to what it does wrong.

However, I do hear promise in well made high order DSD recordings.

For now, I have completely divested myself from digital in my systems, and limit my exposure of digitalized music to vinyl sourced streams on my phone (thru headphones).

I do have just over a handful of digitally sourced records. I don't like the sound of them, so they spend all of their time gather dust.

For those that are happy using digital as a source, more power to you.

So musical exploration for you stops around the late 70ies, then?

 

[microstrip]

I've often thought DCS owners were aliens, which planet are you from?

We try to create such illusion in order to avoid any confusion with the air force ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Combat_Simulator

 

[Lee]

I've often thought DCS owners were aliens, which planet are you from?

Mars. David Bowie and I went to school there.

 

[PeterA]

Mars. David Bowie and I went to school there.

Don't forget Frank's kids Dweezil and Moon.

 

[Lee]

Don't forget Frank's kids Dweezil and Moon.

They were in a class behind David and I.

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

I'm thinking that it would be possible to emulate some of the vinyl sound in a digital filter. The distortion from cartridge, phono can be emulated just like guitar amplifiers are being emulated now. It won't emulate the different mastering techniques that are used with vinyl though.

 

[Joe Whip]

There are expensive plug ins that mimic the sound of tape too.

 

[Audire]

At present Digital is behind Vinyl in terms of SQ. Any excellent system will reveal this. If your system doesn’t reveal this, then you need an “excellent” not just a good one.

Digital is still rather young. We’ve seen massive improvements in it within the last 10 years. Taiko, WADAX, Horizon, are just a few of the examples. Who knows what’s on the blueprint agenda for the next 10 years?

Digital will continue to improve! Presently, some can hear the different between Digital and Vinyl. As proven by the MOFI debacle, some can’t (i.e. 1000s we’re fooled, still are). So, Digital is evidently making some serious strides. IMO, it will catch up with Vinyl and possibly even surpass it one day, perhaps even surpassing tape … ?

Who knows what the future of audio holds? Perhaps CDs will make a comeback? Perhaps Vinyl will make a second comeback? What about tape? Perhaps digital will stream ahead. Maybe all of the above will happen … Who knows?

 

[Carlos269]

I'm thinking that it would be possible to emulate some of the vinyl sound in a digital filter. The distortion from cartridge, phono can be emulated just like guitar amplifiers are being emulated now. It won't emulate the different mastering techniques that are used with vinyl though.

The Weiss DAC/DSP 501 and 502 series of dacs and DSP processors offer Vinyl Emulation:

Weiss DSP-502

 

[Republicoftexas69]

I'm thinking that it would be possible to emulate some of the vinyl sound in a digital filter. The distortion from cartridge, phono can be emulated just like guitar amplifiers are being emulated now. It won't emulate the different mastering techniques that are used with vinyl though.

I am not sure why one would want to if you have a decent analog front end? Just my opinion and I have a few of them.

 

[Lee]

Digital is still rather young. We’ve seen massive improvements in it within the last 10 years. Taiko, WADAX, Horizon, are just a few of the examples. Who knows what’s on the blueprint agenda for the next 10 years?

You misspelled dCS wrong.

 

[hopkins]

At present Digital is behind Vinyl in terms of SQ. Any excellent system will reveal this. If your system doesn’t reveal this, then you need an “excellent” not just a good one.

Digital is still rather young. We’ve seen massive improvements in it within the last 10 years. Taiko, WADAX, Horizon, are just a few of the examples. Who knows what’s on the blueprint agenda for the next 10 years?

Digital will continue to improve! Presently, some can hear the different between Digital and Vinyl. As proven by the MOFI debacle, some can’t (i.e. 1000s we’re fooled, still are). So, Digital is evidently making some serious strides. IMO, it will catch up with Vinyl and possibly even surpass it one day, perhaps even surpassing tape … ?

Who knows what the future of audio holds? Perhaps CDs will make a comeback? Perhaps Vinyl will make a second comeback? What about tape? Perhaps digital will stream ahead. Maybe all of the above will happen … Who knows?

What is interesting is that the "digital camp" is so divided, and there are so many competing approaches and technologies, starting with those who believe a budget DAC is sufficient, provided it meets some basic specifications.

When something stands out, I think we'll know it.

 

[Rexp]

At present Digital is behind Vinyl in terms of SQ. Any excellent system will reveal this. If your system doesn’t reveal this, then you need an “excellent” not just a good one.

Digital is still rather young. We’ve seen massive improvements in it within the last 10 years. Taiko, WADAX, Horizon, are just a few of the examples. Who knows what’s on the blueprint agenda for the next 10 years?

Digital will continue to improve! Presently, some can hear the different between Digital and Vinyl. As proven by the MOFI debacle, some can’t (i.e. 1000s we’re fooled, still are). So, Digital is evidently making some serious strides. IMO, it will catch up with Vinyl and possibly even surpass it one day, perhaps even surpassing tape … ?

Who knows what the future of audio holds? Perhaps CDs will make a comeback? Perhaps Vinyl will make a second comeback? What about tape? Perhaps digital will stream ahead. Maybe all of the above will happen … Who knows?

The biggest problem with digital is the poor recording/mastering quality out there. Out of interest have you heard Playback Designs?

 

[Audire]

The biggest problem with digital is the poor recording/mastering quality out there. Out of interest have you heard Playback Designs?

Playback Designs isn‘t compelling. It’s definitely NOT live reproduction.

 

[microstrip]

I'm thinking that it would be possible to emulate some of the vinyl sound in a digital filter. The distortion from cartridge, phono can be emulated just like guitar amplifiers are being emulated now. It won't emulate the different mastering techniques that are used with vinyl though.

I think that it should be very hard. Some vinyl distortions are not linear due to the mechanical complexity of vinyl cutting and playback. Surely the mastering decisions should be carried by sound engineers during mastering.

But this type of developments will need a lot of effort and I do not foresee anyone interested in carrying it.

 

[Audire]

What is interesting is that the "digital camp" is so divided, and there are so many competing approaches and technologies, starting with those who believe a budget DAC is sufficient, provided it meets some basic specifications.

When something stands out, I think we'll know it.

I agree that digital solutions are somewhat divided at the present time. But what does the future hold? Engineers are listening! They are taking notes. Innovations are being thought about. IMO changes are coming … And I think they may be for the better! But only time will tell.

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

I am not sure why one would want to if you have a decent analog front end? Just my opinion and I have a few of them.

I wouldn't either to be frank. It's possible, that's what I meant. Not that it is probable, and even less practical.
But what is somebody doesn't have either a turntable or vinyls?

 

[microstrip]

At present Digital is behind Vinyl in terms of SQ.

Ok, your opinion. I think that ranking them is a matter of listener preference, not absolute stereo sound quality.

Any excellent system will reveal this. If your system doesn’t reveal this, then you need an “excellent” not just a good one.

Now you enter other people systems with plenty of absurd elitism that does not prove anything.

Digital is still rather young. We’ve seen massive improvements in it within the last 10 years. Taiko, WADAX, Horizon, are just a few of the examples. Who knows what’s on the blueprint agenda for the next 10 years?

The improvements on playback were not massive - they are evolutionary. The same way that vinyl playback has evolved in the last 10 years. Some people say that the evolution of audio during the last 20 years was lead by digital sound.

You have a point that streaming is still at his start.

Digital will continue to improve! Presently, some can hear the different between Digital and Vinyl.

You will always hear a difference between them. The working digital community is not interested in emulating the old analog sound - read what digital designers and recording engineers say about this subject.

As proven by the MOFI debacle, some can’t (i.e. 1000s we’re fooled, still are). So, Digital is evidently making some serious strides. IMO, it will catch up with Vinyl and possibly even surpass it one day, perhaps even surpassing tape … ?

It has catch up, but surely will not be able to recreate the analog recordings of the past or record the great artists of the past.

Who knows what the future of audio holds? Perhaps CDs will make a comeback? Perhaps Vinyl will make a second comeback? What about tape? Perhaps digital will stream ahead. Maybe all of the above will happen … Who knows?

The only thing we know is that the future of audio holds in digital. Vinyl is making a comeback based in LPs using digital processing somewhere in the chain. We can have temporary limited resurgence of some old media, but not because of sound quality. Just MO, YMMV.

 

[Audire]

I think that it should be very hard. Some vinyl distortions are not linear due to the mechanical complexity of vinyl cutting and playback. Surely the mastering decisions should be carried by sound engineers during mastering.

But this type of developments will need a lot of effort and I do not foresee anyone interested in carrying it.

What you call “vinyl distortions“ are in fact part and parcel of much of the genuine music that many of us actually remember and adore. You wrongly look at your so-called “distortions“ as a defect, as many listen to it as what we so fondly remember as “the sound” … They aren’t distortions, but truth! The artists knew what the recording capabilities of their day were and produced their albums accordingly! That’s the sound many of us desire! I’m sorry you didn’t appreciate this reality!

MS though you think you do, you don’t speak for all listeners (and neither do I). You are merely one small voice, one opinion, one mini cog, among many others!

Those of us who are accustomed to older music understand that artists recorded to the extremes that were present in their day. But they didn’t go beyond that! How could they, as they didn’t know then of today’s technology! So, different recordings - esp older ones — will have different strengths.

See you in 10 years when your points are disproven. Until then enjoy your delusions!

 

[Joe Whip]

Sorry, but distortions are just that, distortions. Not the truth but distortions of the truth. You may like them, which is fine. I grew up with vinyl. I do not look upon it fondly. I have been in some recording studios, hear the live mic feed, digital playback, the resulting digital files and vinyl made from the masters. The vinyl does not sound the same as the digital master. Give me the digital every time. But hey, that is just me. I am sure my hearing is shit and my system not good enough. I do wear my chaff badge proudly though.