I would not know. I've never been tempted by any of them. Did they "sound like shit" because of the digital step? You will never know.
I would still be curious to know if any one of you die-hard analog fans can even come up with an example of a good sounding recording in digital format! Is there really nothing out there that you feel even comes close to the lively/natural sound that you get from vinyl?
Here are four. They all sound good. The only one I have on vinyl is the Holly Cole. I prefer the LP. Would love to hear the others on vinyl, but I think they are all digital recordings. I play them in my truck now that I took my CDP out of my system, and I take them to Al's house. Bonzo might prefer them in my truck.
Clifford Jordana Quartet, Live at Ethell's, Mapleshade. 56292 AAD
Late Night Brubeck, Live from the Blue Note, Telarc Jazz, CD-83345
Holly Cole Trio, Don't Smoke in Bed, Alert, Z2 81020
Dee Dee Bridgewater, Keeping Tradition, Verve, 314518606-2
I would not know. I've never been tempted by any of them. Did they "sound like shit" because of the digital step? You will never know.
I would still be curious to know if any one of you die-hard analog fans can even come up with an example of a good sounding recording in digital format! Is there really nothing out there that you feel even comes close to the lively/natural sound that you get from vinyl?
Alice In Chains, Unplugged. i have the CD, but the Tidal MQA 16/44 sounds better, but my uber$$$ server is likely better sounding than my cheap transport. it sounds fully lively and natural.....explosive. played at live levels it's astonishing.
there are many others that sound lively and natural with my Wadax Level 4. OTOH likely any of them might be even better had they been all analog. like my LZ 45rpm box set. the Alice In Chains is not quite like that.
in the case where i have both high rez digital and vinyl or tape from the same mic feed the analog is better, although i don't have enough of those for any sort of proof of concept. anecdotal only. but really the point is more that digital can enter the realm when all the graphs cross, but the ultimate is going to be analog. my best analog hits peak SPL's on my dart amps that digital just cannot. digital smears peaks. just the facts. sounds great but it's not quite capable.
Are you sure? Most I've seen have wording like the below:
"The Master has been implemented with Ampex ATR 102 (Electronic Tube Ampex Model 351 - 1965) 2 tracks, 1/2 inch 30ips modified by David Manley. The Mastering for Vinyl was made by Giulio Cesare Ricci using Signoricci's analog and valve system."
"For this recording I brought all my equipment both analog (Ampex ATR 102 Electronic Tube Ampex Model 351-1965 2 tracks, 1/2 inch, 30ips modified by David Manley) and digital (Pyramix Recorder, dCS A/D and D/A converters). This is because I have always made two Masters for each recording: an analogue master for Vinyls and a DSD digital master for SuperAudioCDs."
GIROTONDO De André - Musica Nuda - Petra Magoni & Ferruccio Spinetti - Vinyl Musica Nuda in this LP features songs by the great Italian singer-songwriter De André, an interpretation not to be missed! (Petra Magoni vocals, Ferruccio Spinetti double bass) and fonè Records
My best analog hits peak SPL's on my dart amps that digital just cannot. digital smears peaks. just the facts. sounds great but it's not quite capable.
Are you sure? Most I've seen have wording like the below:
"The Master has been implemented with Ampex ATR 102 (Electronic Tube Ampex Model 351 - 1965) 2 tracks, 1/2 inch 30ips modified by David Manley. The Mastering for Vinyl was made by Giulio Cesare Ricci using Signoricci's analog and valve system."
"For this recording I brought all my equipment both analog (Ampex ATR 102 Electronic Tube Ampex Model 351-1965 2 tracks, 1/2 inch, 30ips modified by David Manley) and digital (Pyramix Recorder, dCS A/D and D/A converters). This is because I have always made two Masters for each recording: an analogue master for Vinyls and a DSD digital master for SuperAudioCDs."
GIROTONDO De André - Musica Nuda - Petra Magoni & Ferruccio Spinetti - Vinyl Musica Nuda in this LP features songs by the great Italian singer-songwriter De André, an interpretation not to be missed! (Petra Magoni vocals, Ferruccio Spinetti double bass) and fonè Records
Having done your NL level of compares, and dismissed them, I graduated to comparing systems by using the best analog recordings in analog systems and best digital recordings in digital systems.
Is there anyone that has more experience and expertise on this subject matter than you? BTW, nice finish.
After posting the above, I have read a few more of your subsequent comments on this thread. I am absolutely awestruck by your personal humility and respect for others.
MoFi vinyl with a digital transfer step is like waking up in the morning and fixing yourself a bowl of dry cereal, getting the milk out of the refrigerator, and getting ready to pour the milk into the bowl. You look at the date on the milk carton, and see that it is spoiled.
So you put the milk back in the refrigerator thinking to yourself, "maybe it'll be fresh tomorrow."
MoFi vinyl with a digital transfer step is like waking up in the morning and fixing yourself a bowl of dry cereal, getting the milk out of the refrigerator, and getting ready to pour the milk into the bowl. You look at the date on the milk carton, and see that it is spoiled.
So you put the milk back in the refrigerator thinking to yourself, "maybe it'll be fresh tomorrow."
We all know the limitations of systems because we experience (non recorded) sound all the time - no need to step into a concert hall, it's all around us all the time. It doesn't take a genius to know that what we listen to in a recording (whether analog or digital) is a pale copy of the original.
But we need to keep open mind to the idea that there can be "fresher" milk to be had. Otherwise you just keep playing the same old records (which is fine if you enjoy them, but you risk being "outdated" and irrelevant).
I don't rip my vinyls (see my previous posts), and have not compared, but I believe, for a number of reasons, that direct playback (ADC direct to DAC) is superior to ripping+ file playback. I only mention all this because I have been honestly really positively surprised by the results.
So, you are bypassing the analogue phono and equalizing the TT signal digitally - is that correct?
Would the absence of the phono stage be the reason you find this superior to ripping & file playback?
In both cases (ripping or not) the phono stage is bypassed. DSP can be criticized, but analog EQ is far from perfect also.
I have not seriously compared ripping versus direct playback, so it's just a hunch that ripping and file playback has the potential to introduce additional issues (both when you record using the USB output of an ADC, and when you play back the file).
All I can say is that even with a decent (but not high end) turntable as a source, the "magic" of some LPs comes through when I listen to them in this way, so this digital step does not "kill the sound", in my opinion.
I know of one other person (but not a member of this forum) who actually uses the same system as I (M2TECH Joplin + PowerDAC...) but with a much better turntable, and seems to have reached the same conclusion.
YMMV...
This is also consistent with the idea that ADCs may no longer be the bottleneck for digital - something I'm not competent to have an opinion about. This may all be wishful thinking!
Indeed - and good ones are usually very expensive!
I remember the first phono that spontaneously impressed me - and it was 12k 20 years ago (FM acoustics)!
Indeed - and good ones are usually very expensive!
I remember the first phono that spontaneously impressed me - and it was 12k 20 years ago (FM acoustics)!
