Yes I hope WBF members are not gullible enough to listen to such nonsense posted by Industry players and digital bots.
Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?
- Thread starter ScottK
- Start date
Some dude full of Irony , laziness and Ignorance , but mostly abides by the notion its better to be a PITA than to contribute anything at anytime ..
Eventually the Industry Ignored him ....
Here's a AAA Count Basie track on vinyl and below the commercial digital release. If you're not blown away by how much better the vinyl is, stick to digital-only (or get a better youtube playback device).
The loudness war stared between two multi-conglomerate corporations that own 80% of the commerial publishers as well as 100% of the broadcasting to include jukeboxes. Then they continued when the self publishers was able to get a hold of recording equipment at reasonable price. Currently, someone can start up a studio that would be on the same level of theirs for $30K that used to be $300K in equipment. The rest is just real estate.
In the end, they ruined the CD format remastering their libraries. But their bad falsehoods of 'louder is better' is still around today as well as their lack of mix composition.
The problem is that you can't always "sample" the LP version to compare with the digital version.
I was listening to this album today - a digital version:
Decisions (George Adams and Don Pullen album) - Wikipedia
Sound quality wise, I wish the piano was better recorded (maybe a little louder? it feels drowned out by the bass and drums) but the track is still exciting to listen to (and Don Pullen's piano solo is great).. Is that in the recording itself, or is it due to the digital production? It was recorded in 1984 - is it AAA?
I just purchased an LP version out of curiosity
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You tube really a bad for a platform to compare anything with music, because you have to format it to a compressed MP4
It's not ideal but both vids are equally compressed. Hope you listened, the difference is stark.
Its because the publisher thinks they have to have it loud to sell it.
Not too long ago, the clip recovery circuit they use to over-crank the music was finally marketed because beforehand, they used the clip recovery in the high end converters, and soft clip the signal a few times to get the loudness.
In the comparison, I notice that the music is more lo-fi as the bass is rolled off aggressively so high frequencies appear to be louder.
Here is the one of the music smasher/converter they use now these days:
With compressed MP4 you may lose some resolution, but differences in recording and/or production quality can still be apparent if they are large enough, which they often are.
Actually the loudness war was brought out from a necessity to appease the poor playback systems being used , portables , phones , desk tops etc ..!
Considering how most mixes are really evaluated for playback less dynamics and more gain sounds alot better on systems with limited DR ..!
If it sounds good on the Duotones usually this is where its heading ..!
I think it has something to do with the wall to wall carpet. That is going soon. Putting in a cork floor. Mostly for dust mitigation. Part of why my vinyl is not setup. I don't have a rack in place.
Dear @sparkie, the issue with the digital version that @Rexp shared isn't really about increased loudness. The main problem is that it sounds washed out and lifeless, which is often the result of digital processing—or just digital audio in general. If you're deep into digital, you might not notice it until you hear a well-tuned vinyl setup. It's like the difference between a fish in water and one out of it.
I said you can have good vinyl for more like $17,000. You dont have to spend $41,000. $41,000 will get your world class vinyl.
I had the Rega RP6 with Exact and the Rega FONO. it was enjoyable. End of story. A very mundain vinyl system that a non audiophile wanting to play dirty old records could enjoy. As I did. I had to change the needle once a year as the tech who worked on it for me said the needle was so dirty and worn it had to be replaced.
I then got the Allnic H1201 phono preamp for about $2200. A nice step up. Then a Denon 103R in a Midas headshell. Again a small boost. Then a Herbies step up transformer for the Deneon. A larger step up. All improvement. But in the big scheme, nothing spectacular. Just very enjoyable. I also ripped the motor off the Plinth of the RP6 and mounted it on a block. Big improvement. I thought my vinyl was pretty good. But you only know what your limited experience it. You can't read about audio and understand it. You have to hear and experience it.
Eric Peel with Solypsa came over with the Motus STST II DD turn table, moved my arm and cartridge onto it and turned it on. It was immediate how mundane my old RP6 was. Eventually I got rid of the H1201 and got the Channel D transimpedance phono. Again a massive step up. At this point I have about $17k in vinyl equipment and its very good. Its no longer limiting my other equipment.
Sure a cheap phono system works and sounds enjoyable. But a quality phono rig complete is around $15k.
During that Rega time, digital out performed my vinyl on many levels. It was sort of a leap frog show if you look at my old Audionirvana posts. Improve one or the other and things leveled up.
Today my best piece of vinyl will better my best piece of digital. But I have plenty of best digital that is better than my ok versiom on vinyl. So if I only had vinyl, I would have to suffer through crappy playback of some albums. Therefore, I have both. Both are very satisfying. Both better one another dependent on the source material. I honestly don't believe I would every fully feel my vinyl was better than my digital if I was only using a $3000 complete vinyl rig. Maybe at $6000. But even then?????? Whats really better about the vinyl over digital with budget equipmemt.
Consider this too. Some of the vinyl diehards have rack and isolation systems with ionizers and other accessories that cost more than $17,000. So when they say a modest vinyl setup can beat the best digital, what do they really mean by modest. Just ask them what they did to the floor below the rack to support the turn table. Could be $5k in contractor fees stiffening the floor.
Thanks for the clarification sparkie. However, I believe we are talking about two different aspects of the digital impact.
Within the context of how corporations, recording / mixing engineers, etc. have used digital tech to compromise sound quality, you are absolutely correct. It is tragic for those who want the music in the least processed manner possible. That is their prerogative, over which we have no control, and we suffer as a result. Many folks view music as a disposable commodity similar to toothpaste.
My point is that digital tech, used properly (minimizing negative impacts to original source) can and does produce excellent sound quality. Unfortunately, those within the music industry complex with this priority / goal, are a very small minority. As we are all aware, the overwhelming majority of the public could care less. Best
Within the context of how corporations, recording / mixing engineers, etc. have used digital tech to compromise sound quality, you are absolutely correct. It is tragic for those who want the music in the least processed manner possible. That is their prerogative, over which we have no control, and we suffer as a result. Many folks view music as a disposable commodity similar to toothpaste.
My point is that digital tech, used properly (minimizing negative impacts to original source) can and does produce excellent sound quality. Unfortunately, those within the music industry complex with this priority / goal, are a very small minority. As we are all aware, the overwhelming majority of the public could care less. Best
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Rex , are you saying you have mundane sounding analog only LP’s which sound better in Digital , as an ADD conversion ..?
Personally if one is really serious about music and Quality playback its almost impossible to have only one !
At the budgets thrown around here , its easy to have all three , TT, Digital and tape , cant see the reason not to enjoy them all at reasonable prices ..!
Really no need to play Mundane copies of any , select the best of and go to war ..
I have heard a lot of vinyl, in setups that are presumably well tuned, and I love it. Yet if you think that digital sounds lifeless in comparison I have to pity you for apparently never having heard good digital playback.
I marvel at the liveliness and musical excitement that my digital setup delivers. I don't miss vinyl in my own system.
This settles the matter then, I guess. We don’t require vinyl.
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