Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?

[Kingrex]

I.agree you can record anything in a garage. And it can sound very good. When I hear someone say a professional studio,I have a different image. I see a piece.of real.estate and inside it contsins
30 or 40 microphones. A mixing console. And the good ones with quality pots, slides and electronics are not inexpensive There is easily $30,000 in different processors in the studios rack. They also have a serious electrical service with a large quality isolation transformer such as a Torus ot Controlled Power. And there is a variety of recording rooms. All those rooms need to be wired. Cable and my labor cost money. As well as a comtrol room with playback equipment. Heck, you still need to meet ADA and have a bathroom. Anyone involved.in commercial development? I spent my life in it. A flipping bathroom can cost $100,000 in a commercial building. And what about a trained, known recording engineers. They want a paycheck too.
I could be wrong. But I believe to build out a real recording studio and staff.it is going to set you back a good Million. Maybe 2. Thats an opinion without building one myself. I have stood in 3 home ones. 2 looked incredibly expensie. 1 was a.good friend done for maybe $20k. He did all the construction work and it was in his garage.

 

[Kingrex]

I don't sell anything outside panels, Torus transfoemers and design services. Trying to write a book on the design side.

I think Rexp gets frustrated when he sees some pretty common sense on what sort of quality and performance your going to get with vinyl equipment. Its my progress with vinyl over the years. I went through the whole upgrade itus on a lower budget level. Rexp may be stuck at the $1,000 spot and not experienced what a better cart, phono pre, arm, table bring to the playback.
I went through the eact same process with my digital. Look back.to Audionirvana and see where Alrainbow and I would talk. Alrainbow coached me through all sorts or server upgrades in hardware and software. I went through about 6 DAC. All the while my vinyl and digital would leapfrog each other as one or the other got better.

2 days ago I stopped by Mike Lavignes. His digital is OMG good. Is his vinyl better on some material. Sure. But his digital in his system is so far beyond most any other system I have heard. Expensive. Yes. But digital can be all you ever need.

 

[Kingrex]

Im not sure what counts as "a stake in the analog vs digital issue" but he has ~100+ posts in this thread alone. Not as many as your ~200+ posts in this thread. I suppose if you value your time, that's a stake.

My god, I have 100 posts. I should close my phone, open my desktop and design the grounding for the recording.studio and rooms for 3 homeowners that came to me in the last 2 weeks. Posting on this forum is such a time suck. And I have so much work to do. On my land and house that is.

Being that I'm not designing and selling panels for a couple years, I am going to put a real effort into not reading or submitting in forum chatter. If you don't see me, that is what Im doing.

 

[skinnyfla]

… just got a new Antipodes k22g4… boy what a huge difference that made… looking for a matching DAC now… I no longer believe that it’s not possible to make digital at least just as enjoyable as analog, maybe different, but just as good in its own right…

 

[Lagonda]

I.agree you can record anything in a garage. And it can sound very good. When I hear someone say a professional studio,I have a different image. I see a piece.of real.estate and inside it contsins
30 or 40 microphones. A mixing console. And the good ones with quality pots, slides and electronics are not inexpensive There is easily $30,000 in different processors in the studios rack. They also have a serious electrical service with a large quality isolation transformer such as a Torus ot Controlled Power. And there is a variety of recording rooms. All those rooms need to be wired. Cable and my labor cost money. As well as a comtrol room with playback equipment. Heck, you still need to meet ADA and have a bathroom. Anyone involved.in commercial development? I spent my life in it. A flipping bathroom can cost $100,000 in a commercial building. And what about a trained, known recording engineers. They want a paycheck too.
I could be wrong. But I believe to build out a real recording studio and staff.it is going to set you back a good Million. Maybe 2. Thats an opinion without building one myself. I have stood in 3 home ones. 2 looked incredibly expensie. 1 was a.good friend done for maybe $20k. He did all the construction work and it was in his garage.

Built one for $650k in 1999, good used SSL board and Protools in programming rooms. My partner owned microphones and plugins already. Rooms designed by professional studio builders.

 

[tima]

But that's my point, Tim. He is consulting on electrical services. What does this have to do with the price of turntables, which he doesn't sell and thus has no stake in?

Your point is pointless. You are the one manufacturing that connection, whatever it is. I don't see what this has to do with anything.

 

[Rexp]

I don't sell anything outside panels, Torus transfoemers and design services. Trying to write a book on the design side.

I think Rexp gets frustrated when he sees some pretty common sense on what sort of quality and performance your going to get with vinyl equipment. Its my progress with vinyl over the years. I went through the whole upgrade itus on a lower budget level. Rexp may be stuck at the $1,000 spot and not experienced what a better cart, phono pre, arm, table bring to the playback.
I went through the eact same process with my digital. Look back.to Audionirvana and see where Alrainbow and I would talk. Alrainbow coached me through all sorts or server upgrades in hardware and software. I went through about 6 DAC. All the while my vinyl and digital would leapfrog each other as one or the other got better.

2 days ago I stopped by Mike Lavignes. His digital is OMG good. Is his vinyl better on some material. Sure. But his digital in his system is so far beyond most any other system I have heard. Expensive. Yes. But digital can be all you ever need.

LOL, I used to own a high end dealership, I speak truth, you on the other hand spread misinformation. What is the average system value of your clients systems? How many of your clients have $1000 turntables?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

2 days ago I stopped by Mike Lavigne's. His digital is OMG good. Is his vinyl better on some material. Sure. But his digital in his system is so far beyond most any other system I have heard. Expensive. Yes. But digital can be all you ever need.

Rex, i rarely comment on/critique comments from visitors to my room, as i don't ever want anyone to feel like they are being coached. comments need to be unedited and taken on their own without me chiming in. yet in this case, i want to say that 'on some material' is something i do not agree with.

can you find digital where my analog sourced pressings are not that much better? possible, but not likely. head to head there is a clear distinction. does my digital sound OMG good? could not say it better.....and you don't miss the vinyl......till.....you actually play it.

OTOH if we play random classical pressings there are going to be pressings where the musical connection is not as great as others. which can be for many reasons, most of which has to do with the performance or recording or transfer or mastering.....or........our connection to that music/recording at that time. unless we play the actual digital file from that pressing, hard to draw conclusions. conversely most jazz (or rock) analog sourced pressings are going to be an immediate rave. easy to warm up to and connect to it's magic. the musical difference between that and even a great digital file of it is clear.....in my system. i made this point to you during our session.

i do thank you for commenting and respect that your comments were how you felt about what you heard. and next time let'r rip as you see fit.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Regardless of cost or setup very good Digital always sound really good until you start playing Vinyl , there’s an obvious electronic taste to Digital that never goes away regardless of setup ..

 

[Al M.]

Regardless of cost or setup very good Digital always sound really good until you start playing Vinyl , there’s an obvious electronic taste to Digital that never goes away regardless of setup ..

Too bad if you can't get digital to sound right.

Yes, on a lot of digital there is an obvious electronic taste, I agree, but this is not unavoidable.

 

[skinnyfla]

... to me it is a pointless discussion, as when vinyl is available i will usually buy vinyl, but there is so much music out there (especially new stuff) that you can only get on CD or sometimes even only as download... so there is no way around digital (if music is not available on vinyl, there is no point discussing which is better). When both are available indeed vinyl will sound better almost always, unless it is newer stuff and the digital mastering is better... anyhow, I have come to find that I was very very biased towards the SQ of digital playback because I always had in my head, that there is no way digital can ever sound good... and I have come to learn that digital can sound really really fantastic... as good as vinyl is probably the wrng approach, different but just as enjoyable is the right thing to aim for I would think...

 

[Audiohertz2]

Too bad if you can't get digital to sound right.

Yes, on a lot of digital there is an obvious electronic taste, I agree, but this is not unavoidable.

Was this for me or Mike L ..?

 

[Al M.]

Was this for me or Mike L ..?

I guess you know the answer.

 

[Al M.]

.. anyhow, I have come to find that I was very very biased towards the SQ of digital playback because I always had in my head, that there is no way digital can ever sound good... and I have come to learn that digital can sound really really fantastic...

Indeed.

as good as vinyl is probably the wrng approach, different but just as enjoyable is the right thing to aim for I would think...

Digital will always sound different from vinyl, for the obvious technical reasons given how vinyl has to be cut and is replayed.

 

[thedudeabides]

Regardless of cost or setup very good Digital always sound really good until you start playing Vinyl , there’s an obvious electronic taste to Digital that never goes away regardless of setup ..

Just add a little salt and pepper. That should banish the "electronic taste". If that doesn't work, try some chicken noodle soup.

 

[PeterA]

Indeed.



Digital will always sound different from vinyl, for the obvious technical reasons given how vinyl has to be cut and is replayed.

Al, vinyl will always sound different from digital, for the obvious technical reasons of how digital is made and replayed.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Regardless of cost or setup very good Digital always sound really good until you start playing Vinyl , there’s an obvious electronic taste to Digital that never goes away regardless of setup ..

while i have heard digital with something you could call 'electronic taste', it's not valid as a generality. my digital has zero electronic taste, digital signature, or whatever you want to call it.

does it have sins of omission compared directly to vinyl.....sure.....less sounding real, less sounding live, less complete. but listening to it there is no suggestion that it has less of those things. only head to head with high quality vinyl does that contrast exist.

where is the tipping point in performance where something is added to digital that might be considered a digital/electronic flavor? i cannot answer that. these days some pretty good digital is quite reasonable. i'm sure it's a debatable answer based on personal taste. in my recent CD transport experience, i did have that sense about what i heard until i added the clock to it. it did sound electronic, digital, or whatever you want to call it. that was a $2699 retail price source. so there you have a data point. one.

just my 2 cents. YMMV.

 

[Al M.]

Al, vinyl will always sound different from digital, for the obvious technical reasons of how digital is made and replayed.

Peter, if a vinyl setup features the choice of several cartridges that all sound different, the sound of which one should digital emulate?

 

[PeterA]

Peter, if a vinyl setup features the choice of several cartridges that all sound different, the sound of which one should digital emulate?

The one that sounds the most natural.

What DAC, clock, cables, filters? CD or streaming? How can it be emulated?

I agree with you that vinyl and digital sound different.

 

[skinnyfla]

... many people with mucho experience here - I have a rather modest setup compared to most but I do like what I`m hearing. Obviously most budgets are limited at some point and the higher one climbs the closer you might get to "the thread title". I just want my digital to be "as enjoyable", not "as good" in a comparing manner, as vinyl will always be vinyl and digital always digital.

So talking about "at what price" - I found moving away from an iMac and an Auralic Aries G1 to an Antipodes k22 G4 brought me leaps of better enjoyment.

That brings me to wonder how big the leap in SQ is when playing with DACs. Is the influence of a DAC as big as that of the server/renderer and also "at what price" to things get really good as far as DACs go? Is a Lampi Baltic 4 already seriously good or do you have to go ways further to get the quality right?