Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?

[Bonesy Jonesy]

Good digital playback needs good CD Transport like CEC TL0 3.0 plus good digital cable.
in this market both good CD transport and good digital cable are rare.
every judgment about digital without having good transport is not accepted. good CD Transport gives you better bass, pace and real dynamics.
if you have good Transport + good digital cable + good CD Album (AAD) then you can discover the real capacity of digital.

SACD is even better !

 

[ScottK]

SACD is even better !

I'm running my SACD collection from my PSAudio Transport via I2S to my Terminator Plus with great results. It allows the direct transmission of the DSD signal to the DAC.

 

[SoundMann]

I find that some digital played music has more information than the vinyl recordings and we know some top recordings carried in digital would not have been possible in analog.

Digital has inherently less resolution than vinyl is capable of. How do you explain the above statement (ignoring issues with pressing and recording quality)?

I felt the same about the TechDas, but the anti "black background" brigade feels nervous with it ...

Have you heard the Air Force Zero?

 

[SoundMann]

So musical exploration for you stops around the late 70ies, then?

Essentially, yes.

 

[SoundMann]

How do you figure this? Digital is approximately 40 years old.

I would consider 40 years hardly to be infancy.

I can tell you that digital still suffers from most of the original core problems, which is why high end adc/dac designs do so much to try to improve it.

And you have all of the endless bandaids required to make streaming sound acceptable.

 

[Amir]

SACD is even better !

Actually I am not fan of digital and I prefer Analog , SACD stores more data than CD and it could be better in theory but in real world digital processing before conversion to SACD can degrade the sound.
Some AAD CD albums are better than DDD SACD albums.

 

[hopkins]

Good digital playback needs good CD Transport like CEC TL0 3.0 plus good digital cable.
in this market both good CD transport and good digital cable are rare.
every judgment about digital without having good transport is not accepted. good CD Transport gives you better bass, pace and real dynamics.
if you have good Transport + good digital cable + good CD Album (AAD) then you can discover the real capacity of digital.

This comment illustrates the state of digital audio: many competing approaches, without anything more than anecdotal evidence to support various claims... There is such a variety of solutions, you cannot try them all!

 

[UEM]

While I confess that I’m very much an old fashioned Vinyl guy, I equally have to admit: If you want to listen to actual recordings in the classical or opera world, you hardly get anything on Vinyl.
Currently performing classical artists mainly distribute via the usual platforms or for physical carriers on CD.

And even IF you do get classical music on Vinyl, chances are that the recording was done mainly via the usual digital processes.
OK there are indeed some notable exceptions, but they are very rare…

Regards
Urs


BTW: I thought, the “Digital vs Analogue Warfare„ has ended long time ago…???

 

[jespera]

follow the money. always.

unless there is an economic case to advance digital audio technology it's not surpassing analog. best case for that to happen is likely in the gaming sector where the budgets are almost unlimited. but it won't come from the music business. just not enough reason$ to spend the money.

look at the current merger between Microsoft and the Call Of Duty rights holder. almost 100 Billion $$$'s. compare that to music making. yet it wants to attract more customers. or maybe in some sort of defense budget in some way. but don't look for any digital quality advancements organically from the current music making participants.

the other issue is the best recordings we have are already in analog. best performances and best recorded. so whatever new formats or tech that comes along will somehow have to surpass that legacy to be better. that's a tall order.

Actually, I think advances in digital sound technology could come from hearing aid technology and voice recognition.

But theres a very long way to go, for best digital to get close to best analogue.

To my ears best digital is still 16bit cd AAD recordings into a tda 1541 based dac. Abbas for example.

 

[Ron Resnick]

It seems to me (my ears) that the Sonos soundbar is nicely rounded at the HF and plumps up some lower frequencies, which results in a very pleasing sound.

If the only sonic parameter is tonal balance, then it is possible for a computer sound bar to sound better than a fatiguingly bright high-end audio system in a listening room.

But if someone reports that sitting in front of a computer sound bar achieves a greater suspension of disbelief than even a fatiguingly bright high-end audio system in a listening room then I think either that person is exaggerating or I have lost respect for that person's reports.

Peter seems to latch onto any suggestion he can find that most contemporary systems sound bad.

 

[bonzo75]

But if someone reports that sitting in front of a computer sound bar achieves a greater suspension of disbelief than even a fatiguingly bright high-end audio system in a listening room then I think either that person is exaggerating or I have lost respect for that person's reports.

that’s exactly what I am saying. 95 percent of systems I have heard are not capable of playing even one track to keep my interest. I don’t know where you got that fatigue only means high end brightness. I was not referring to digital systems, also analog

You are welcome to not follow my reports.

 

[Ron Resnick]

that’s exactly what I am saying. 95 percent of systems I have heard are not capable of playing even one track to keep my interest.

So you are saying that you achieve greater suspension of disbelief from a computer sound bar than you achieve from 95% of the high-end audio systems in listening rooms you have heard?

 

[bonzo75]

So you are saying that you achieve greater suspension of disbelief from a computer sound bar than you achieve from 95% of the high-end audio systems in listening rooms you have heard?

that’s not what I said either. You changed my statement.

Also, I already know you and many others did not even bother to hear the rips I posted. It says much more about you guys.

 

[Ron Resnick]

that’s not what I said either. You changed my statement.

I apologize for misunderstanding or mischaracterizing your reply.

I will ask my question directly:

Do you achieve greater suspension of disbelief from a computer sound bar than you achieve from 95% of the high-end audio systems in listening rooms you have heard?

 

[bonzo75]

I apologize for misunderstanding or mischaracterizing your reply.

I will ask my question directly:

Do you achieve greater suspension of disbelief from a computer sound bar than you achieve from 95% of the high-end audio systems in listening rooms you have heard?

that’s not what I said. Read my statement that started this

 

[Ron Resnick]

that’s not what I said. Read my statement that started this

I am asking you a new, fresh question. If you decline to answer, I respect that. But then just say that -- instead of dodging.

 

[bonzo75]

I am asking you a new, fresh question. If you decline to answer, I respect that. But then just say that -- instead of dodging.

No not at all, you tried this before, you change things to ask a question on an yes no way rather than locking on to what I am saying.

 

[PeterA]

Peter seems to latch onto any suggestion he can find that most contemporary systems sound bad.

No. There is no way that I have heard "most contemporary systems", so this is a clear exaggeration and is utter nonsense.

I can indeed often relate to such comments from others, so when someone makes reference to the same experience, I sometimes comment about my similar experience. I am with Kedar on this one, and many others who are not in this discussion. It seems my sentiments are not unique. Many contemporary systems that I have heard sound fatiguing to my ears, usually digital systems. They are grating due to distortions. I often ask hosts to turn down the volume. This rarely happens in systems that do not exhibit these characteristics. I would much rather listen to a system that is not grating and that I can sit with for longer periods of time. And if that is a sound bar in front of a computer or a truck radio, so be it. I drove seven hours last summer to pick up my new turntable from the factory. I listen to CDs the entire time and loved it. I’ve heard systems where I need to leave the room in 10 or 15 minutes. As Kadar said, it needs to keep my interest. I don’t understand and can’t really relate to the phrase, “suspension of disbelief“. Perhaps it means “believable“. Well something that is fatiguing and greeting on my nerves is not believable because real music does not sound like that at all even if it has all sorts of “detail“.

 

[PeterA]

But if someone reports that sitting in front of a computer sound bar achieves a greater suspension of disbelief than even a fatiguingly bright high-end audio system in a listening room then I think either that person is exaggerating or I have lost respect for that person's reports.

I am reporting that here and now, Ron. I have heard a few system videos recently that friends have sent me, some from CDs and some from vinyl. I listened to them over and over on my crappy computer. They were that excellent. They kept my interest, to use Kedar's phrase. I then listened to them while driving to work because the music was so good and they sound great. The tone and engagement, even "suspension of disbelief" to use your phrase, is much more enjoyable than what I have heard from some systems. "No exaggeration, man". If you have lost respect for my reports, what can I say?

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

Actually I am not fan of digital and I prefer Analog , SACD stores more data than CD and it could be better in theory but in real world digital processing before conversion to SACD can degrade the sound.
Some AAD CD albums are better than DDD SACD albums.

I am thinking if both (CD and SACD) are exactly equal to each other in terms of the music production quality burnt onto each of them !