Can one find realism in box speakers that cost less than $150K after experiencing dynamics of horns and horn-type speakers?

[bonzo75]

The golden rule of unobtainium promotion - people do not love it because they were never exposed to it, they would surely love if they listened.

But you have a point - in my experience most of the time horns are very poorly displayed at shows and box speakers are just poorly displayed, although we have some exceptions. Why such different behavior?

Most horns, like David said, are poor. To listen to good horns you have to search for them. Boxes will find you. They are better distributed. Horns are more bespoke, hardly any well established big companies, so you have to search for them specifically.

 

[microstrip]

Most horns, like David said, are poor. To listen to good horns you have to search for them. Boxes will find you. They are better distributed. Horns are more bespoke, hardly any well established big companies, so you have to search for them specifically.

Then why do not we have a thread listing the good horns - preferably with known recommended retail price?

 

[kach22i]

That's an excellent point. Even the $7,000 magnepan sound more natural to me than any box speaker.

But magazines like Stereophile and TAS push Wilson and Magico on the public as the BEST. But all one has to do is attend an audio show, and hear for themselves how limited the box speaker designs are.

It's all subjective, horns need tubes in the amplification in my opinion.

Horns don't really pan in an out on soundscape/soundstage but there is something that disturbs the illusion of live music about them in my limited exposure to them.

Might be the tendency to emphasize certain frequencies over others.

 

[bonzo75]

Then why do not we have a thread listing the good horns - preferably with known recommended retail price?

As I said, horns are bespoke. So you have to take off your Wilson hat of knowing what the price would be if you called a dealer or distributor, and maybe a reasonable discount. horns also have very differing size and WAF, and the sonic difference between two horns is much greater than between Wilson and Magico. So a price structure won't really help. A sound preference will. For example, you might like the Anima, dislike the Cessaro, or vice versa, think the trios are great, or not. The prices of all these are known. Then there are the bespokes plus others like Blumenhofer, pnoe, etc which have lesser distribution.

 

[kach22i]

..........My point is that $150k is really a ton of money for a speaker system irrespective of design and even at 1/10th of that amount one should be able to get a great sounding box speaker without having to make too many compromises.

I have never heard horns at that price point, but imagine they would be wonderful.

Anything at that price point better be.

 

[kach22i]

As I said, horns are bespoke.............

Soild state amplification advancements have really been a game changer for box speakers, they can now match horn dynamics in many respects.

 

[kach22i]

One combination I have not heard is horns with open baffle, seems like it could be magical.

http://www.pureaudioproject.com/trio15-horn-open-baffle-speakers/

“It figures, the one genre of speaker I thought I could safely ignore through the years is the one I should have been paying closer attention. I had concluded through listening events at shows, dealers and audiophile friends that lower power and high efficiency speakers were not the way to go to attain to SOTA. What was I thinking? That higher power equals superiority? Likely. That nothing tops an electrostatic when it comes to cleanness and detail? Most assuredly. That low power/HE is ancient technology and inevitably the newer designs have surpassed it? No doubt. That horns are problematic, too finicky? Of course.

All wrong. These perceptions were all wrong, obliterated by the experience of hearing the PureAudioProject Trio15 PAP Horn-1.

http://www.pureaudioproject.com/

 

[kach22i]

..........................

We used the Evento at Munich/Marriott and I heard things from the RT that I had not experieced prior. As in riveting and close to alive especially with drums. Love to push the two 15" woofers. I think 15" woofers move air differently than smaller drivers. Although we also played the Caput Mundi and it puzzled me because I thought th CM sounded as good as the RT in many respects, a little less nuance but still had the riveting and alive sound.

http://www.diesisaudio.com/en/product/evento-20-11/

Open baffle................yea, that's the ticket.

http://www.diesisaudio.com/en/product/roma-triode/

 

[Al M.]

box speakers are quite easy to listen to. They are everywhere, better distributed, and better displayed in shows. Horns, especially in the US are difficult. So instead of turning this into a who knows more contest, simply accept realities. Horn lovers start listening to boxes, before they discover horns

My post wasn't specifically about horns, I responded to one that originally addressed planars.

Everybody has their own personal perceptions of sound, and their own priorities in sound reproduction. It is therefore excessively naive to assume that everyone would have the same opinions if they just were exposed to the same things and experiences.

In this context you conveniently ignored the second part of my post, my observation that different audiophiles sometimes hear the sound of the same live concert differently. This also holds if they are sitting next to one another, i.e. experience the sound from virtually the same vantage point.

 

[ddk]

In this context you conveniently ignored the second part of my post, my experience that different audiophiles sometimes hear the sound of the same live concert differently. This also holds if they are sitting next to one another, i.e. experience the sound from virtually the same vantage point.

, how about non audiophiles sitting next to the audiophiles who do they hear like?

david

 

[Al M.]

, how about non audiophiles sitting next to the audiophiles who do they hear like?

david

Hehe, that gets really complicated

 

[Al M.]

You didn’t know SET/horns always wins?

Hehe . Of course it always wins!

 

[morricab]

Soild state amplification advancements have really been a game changer for box speakers, they can now match horn dynamics in many respects.

Disagree and my latest trip to Munich just reinforced this opinion...even many big box speakers were sounding compressed when the music got tough.

 

[morricab]

Hehe . Of course it always wins!

Try speaking from experience

 

[microstrip]

As I said, horns are bespoke. So you have to take off your Wilson hat of knowing what the price would be if you called a dealer or distributor, and maybe a reasonable discount. horns also have very differing size and WAF, and the sonic difference between two horns is much greater than between Wilson and Magico. So a price structure won't really help. A sound preference will. For example, you might like the Anima, dislike the Cessaro, or vice versa, think the trios are great, or not. The prices of all these are known. Then there are the bespokes plus others like Blumenhofer, pnoe, etc which have lesser distribution.

Ok, I see nothing can help the horn chaos ...

IMHO a public price structure is a must for consumers. Otherwise people will spend a life time trying to find what they want and can afford. Although there are some nasty aspects in price or performance classes in audio guides, they have a function to make such information accessible to anyone in a quick time.

 

[morricab]

Ok, I see nothing can help the horn chaos ...

IMHO a public price structure is a must for consumers. Otherwise people will spend a life time trying to find what they want and can afford. Although there are some nasty aspects in price or performance classes in audio guides, they have a function to make such information accessible to anyone in a quick time.

As if they don’t already, with or without horns...LOL

 

[microstrip]

Disagree and my latest trip to Munich just reinforced this opinion...even many big box speakers were sounding compressed when the music got tough.

Do we expect big box speakers to sound any good in such circumstances?

 

[Al M.]

Do we expect big box speakers to sound any good in such circumstances?
View attachment 53203

Yes, and also talk about the lack of unrestricted AC power in such venues that can strangle the amps. Of course the speakers then will sound compressed.

Too funny that people still judge bad sound at shows.

 

[RogerD]

Disagree and my latest trip to Munich just reinforced this opinion...even many big box speakers were sounding compressed when the music got tough.

Compression or congestion or stress, whatever you want to call it, is more a problem related to the electronics.
Horns do have a advantage because of compression drivers...less distortion. You can do the same with dynamic speakers just takes some work and knowledge. YMMV

 

[morricab]

Do we expect big box speakers to sound any good in such circumstances?
View attachment 53203

Interestingly, it is possible...more so than you might think. Most were handicapped similarly...some succeeded most did not. Funny enough a few years ago the Vandersteen top speakers with Brinkmann sounded very good...they have failed to recapture that sound since. These systems cannot capture lifelike dynamics and shading....the physics just works against them.