Can We Predict in Which Systems Audiophiles Will Like vdH Cartridges?

[tima]

I believe that I have noticed a correlation between the components in the systems of audiophiles who like the vdH Master Signature or Grand Cru (collectively, a "vdH") cartridge in their systems, and the components in the systems of those who find the vdH cartridge to be a bit edgy-sounding or to over-emphasize treble frequencies in their systems.

And as a corollary, flip the conditions for the Opus 1?

 

[Tango]

Which system?

System that is setup specifically for classical music and only acoustic instruments without amplification during recording.

 

[PeterA]

If wbf data points are the focus I would be interested in a survey: of those happy with VdH Master Sig and Grand Cru what arm is it paired with? I know in many cases it is 3012r. How many 4pt? How many SAT? Others?


The arm match would be my first consideration. Next phono pre...

Ron, you wrote that you think this comment is off-topic and that it has nothing to do with the original post, but I think that is only because you overlooked the importance of the arm in the systems in which people like the Colibrí cartridges. You did not include it in your opening post and I think that was an oversight.

There is a significant set of WBF members here who use the SME 3012R tonearm with this cartridge and that has to be taken into account.

At the very least that specific arm or tonearms should be included in your list of system generalizations in which this cartridge satisfies the owner.

 

[shakti]

I like to listen to female voices, Jazz, Folk and so on.
Using a Colibri Cart really often show sharp sibilants ,
this might be , because of a lot of bad recordings in my collection , but the colibri has no forgiving.

So I prefer carts, which are more universal in usage. (like my current Etsuro Gold oder Soundsmith Hyperion)

Listening to more string type music (violins, cello...) a Colibri can show great resolution and tone,
a performance which (for my ears) is unique.

In my set ups the Colibri was never the all rounder, more reserved for the special moment with good recorded records

Whenever a new Colibri type is on the market, I am buying the cart to give him the next chance.
Sometimes it stays longer, sometimes I am selling faster.

A Colibri is like a Liaisons dangereuses , sometimes very short, sometimes longer, but you will remember all the time

 

[Tango]

So I prefer carts, which are more universal in usage. (like my current Etsuro Gold oder Soundsmith Hyperion)...


In my set ups the Colibri was never the all rounder, more reserved for the special moment with good recorded records

So, the Esturo Gold is the Miss Universe allrounder. And the vdh a Miss Angelina Jolie.

(This is just to tickle MikeL )

 

[Mike Lavigne]

So, the Esturo Gold is the Miss Universe allrounder. And the vdh a Miss Angelina Jolie.

(This is just to tickle MikeL )

my 2 cents is that in this case Miss Universe also can do the 'nasty' Angelina thing fully too.

 

[jeff1225]

Ron,

How many people have felt the vdH to be a bit edgy-sounding or to over-emphasize treble frequencies?

I think that negative generalizations with such low numbers can be very misleading, particularly are your classes are built on stereotypes that currently have as many exceptions as members.

Micro,
What cartridge do you use on your 3012R?

 

[howiebrou]

If you ever come across him Ron do talk with him. I have to say it was one of the most bizarre experiences I have ever come across in hi-fi.

But with respect to your beliefs expressed in your original post, I am not sure. I think there are too many variables to be sure, not least of which are the listeners themselves. Though I can see your reasoning.

Not sure I would agree. He is very pleasant every time I meet him and doubly engaging when you sit down with a few coffees with him. We didn't even talk audio!

 

[howiebrou]

May be age has a better correlation?

 

[Zero000]

Not sure I would agree. He is very pleasant every time I meet him and doubly engaging when you sit down with a few coffees with him. We didn't even talk audio!

Did he touch on matters to do with health, Howie? That's when it starts getting crazy...

 

[bonzo75]

If wbf data points are the focus I would be interested in a survey: of those happy with VdH Master Sig and Grand Cru what arm is it paired with? I know in many cases it is 3012r. How many 4pt? How many SAT? Others?


The arm match would be my first consideration. Next phono pre...

Apart from SME 3012r & V, Vdh has also sounded excellent with Schroeder, Schick, kuzma 4p, and a bespoke arm.

The problem with this thread is people are referring to different VDHs. The thread makes sense only if they refer to same installation of vdh. It is quite understandable some do not like it at all, but that might have nothing to do with the sound heard by those who prefer it

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

do you guys lack something meaningful to do before x-mas?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Apart from SME 3012r & V, Vdh has also sounded excellent with Schroeder, Schick, kuzma 4p, and a bespoke arm.

The problem with this thread is people are referring to different VDHs. The thread makes sense only if they refer to same installation of vdh. It is quite understandable some do not like it at all, but that might have nothing to do with the sound heard by those who prefer it

i disagree.

my 10 Colbri's all had common characteristics. the Strad's were some different and the MS was a breed apart to further degree. but all still a Colibri no doubt. which always involved some magic going on.

just my opinion.

 

[bonzo75]

i disagree.

my 10 Colbri's all had common characteristics. the Strad's were some different and the MS was a breed apart to further degree. but all still a Colibri no doubt. which always involved some magic going on.

just my opinion.

I was referring to all MS/MSS in my post

 

[Lagonda]

do you guys lack something meaningful to do before x-mas?

Or just in general ?

 

[Ron Resnick]

So these amps intersect with the "over-emphasized" treble group?

Maybe; I don't know particular members who have these amps and fit either group. But it is currently part of the theory.

 

[microstrip]

(...)
At the very least it or tonearms should be included in your list of system generalizations in which this cartridge satisfies the owner.

Yes, I also found that the tonearm is a key part in tonearm compatibility. Cables also affect this aspect significantly.

 

[microstrip]

Micro,
What cartridge do you use on your 3012R?

I am using mainly the Graham Phantom III on the TechDas. I used the vdHul Master Signature with success until I stupidly broke it and I am now using either a vdH Black Beauty , a Sumiko Palo Santos or a Kiseki Agatha Ruby when I want the full, vibrant and old fashioned drive of my younger days. The Kiseki goes in the SME 3012R.

I hope to get the vdH MS repaired back soon.

 

[bonzo75]

I have an observation, which I would like to test as a theory.

I believe that I have noticed a correlation between the components in the systems of audiophiles who like the vdH Master Signature or Grand Cru (collectively, a "vdH") cartridge in their systems, and the components in the systems of those who find the vdH cartridge to be a bit edgy-sounding or to over-emphasize treble frequencies in their systems.

In many systems in which the audiophile finds the vdH to be a bit edgy-sounding or to over-emphasize treble frequencies I believe we find one or more of:

-- ceramic drivers

-- contemporary horn drivers

-- beryllium tweeters (excluding Rockport)

-- cool-balanced solid-state electronics

In many systems in which the audiophile likes the vdH in his system I believe we find one or more of:

-- Wilson, Rockport, Tannoy or other slighty warm-balanced loudspeakers

-- soft dome tweeters (excluding Rockport)

-- vintage horn drivers

-- tube electronics, and often Lamm in particular

-- warm-balanced solid-state electronics

I am not claiming the correlation is 1.0. But, as I casually think about members' reported views and the components in their systems, and the above general lists, I think the correlation is something around .70.

What do you think?

Given how good vdh sounds in the detailed drivers of TAD beryllium as well as vintage WE, I don't think this is a factor. I have also heard it through vox Palladian and Magico Q7 mk2. That said, each time I liked it the electronics were tube but then apart from rare exceptions I usually like tube phonos and amps. I never had the chance to listen it to in the few rare SS gear. The issue is the rogue vdh carts would sound edgy no matter what gear you have

 

[bazelio]

Maybe; I don't know particular members who have these amps and fit either group. But it is currently part of the theory.

There are a three intersections with Dartzeel in the "VdH high frequency excessiveness" group that I'm personally aware of, for what it's worth.