Can We Predict in Which Systems Audiophiles Will Like vdH Cartridges?

[Ron Resnick]

I have an observation, which I would like to test as a theory.

I believe that I have noticed a correlation between the components in the systems of audiophiles who like the vdH Master Signature or Grand Cru (collectively, a "vdH") cartridge in their systems, and the components in the systems of those who find the vdH cartridge to be a bit edgy-sounding or to over-emphasize treble frequencies in their systems.

In many systems in which the audiophile finds the vdH to be a bit edgy-sounding or to over-emphasize treble frequencies I believe we find one or more of:

-- ceramic drivers

-- contemporary horn drivers

-- beryllium tweeters (excluding Rockport)

-- cool-balanced solid-state electronics

In many systems in which the audiophile likes the vdH in his system I believe we find one or more of:

-- Wilson, Rockport, Tannoy or other slighty warm-balanced loudspeakers

-- soft dome tweeters (excluding Rockport)

-- vintage horn drivers

-- tube electronics, and often Lamm in particular

-- warm-balanced solid-state electronics

I am not claiming the correlation is 1.0. But, as I casually think about members' reported views and the components in their systems, and the above general lists, I think the correlation is something around .70.

What do you think?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ron, I've run a range of carts in my various systems, from sharper ones like Roksan Shiraz and Lyra Skala, to apparently neutral ones like Transfiguration Temper Supreme and Orpheus, to warmer ones like Zu Denon 103R and Lyra Parnassus. And now I'm running my Soundsmith Straingauge that seems to straddle the divide, while falling a tad into the leaner/less lush category. It's taking me a little time and effort several years into Straingauge ownership to ameliorate this (set off as a result of my tt motor/lps change). I certainly couldn't contemplate going to anything sharper/more challenging in the high end than my Straingauge, such as the VDH very likely. And that's on a fairly tonally full system comprising Nat SETs and Zu full range drivers spkrs.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, I've run a range of carts in my various systems, from sharper ones like Roksan Shiraz and Lyra Skala, to apparently neutral ones like Transfiguration Temper Supreme and Orpheus, to warmer ones like Zu Denon 103R and Lyra Parnassus. And now I'm running my Soundsmith Straingauge that seems to straddle the divide, while falling a tad into the leaner/less lush category. It's taking me a little time and effort several years into Straingauge ownership to ameliorate this (set off as a result of my tt motor/lps change). I certainly couldn't contemplate going to anything sharper/more challenging in the high end than my Straingauge, such as the VDH very likely. And that's on a fairly tonally full system comprising Nat SETs and Zu full range drivers spkrs.

Could even Sherlock Holmes himself unearth any relevance of this post to the opening post of this thread?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Well, we English gave you guys the joys of our language. If you choose not to master it, that's not our problem.

 

[spiritofmusic]

For the hard of understanding like you Ron, I suspect deep down the VDH will be way more uncompromising thru the high end than my Straingauge...its not for me.
There you go, easy to understand!

 

[PeterA]

Perhaps all the people who have vdH cartridges in their systems love them because ddk set them up for them. Others are outliers like me and Jeffrey_T. We use the protractors from ddk though.

EDIT: Perhaps another important factor are the SME tonearms, particularly the 3012R.
how many people who have not found success with these cartridges have tried them on an SME tonearm?

 

[PeterA]

Ron, I have beryllium tweeters in Magico speakers, solid-state electronics, and a completely untreated listening room. Set up of room and cartridge made the difference in my system as I suspect it does in most. I also think personal preference and priorities and goals determine a lot of the stuff.

I look forward to reading what other people have to say about your opening post.

 

[Zero000]

Have you ever spoken to VDH in person? I have and he a real nutcase. Really. Way out there and possibly not of this planet...

But I guess that's a bit off topic

 

[Ron Resnick]

Have you ever spoken to VDH in person? I have and he a real nutcase. Really. Way out there and possibly not of this planet...

But I guess that's a bit off topic

Yes, it is off topic.

 

[Zero000]

Yes, it is off topic.

If you ever come across him Ron do talk with him. I have to say it was one of the most bizarre experiences I have ever come across in hi-fi.

But with respect to your beliefs expressed in your original post, I am not sure. I think there are too many variables to be sure, not least of which are the listeners themselves. Though I can see your reasoning.

 

[microstrip]

(...) In many systems in which the audiophile finds the vdH to be a bit edgy-sounding or to over-emphasize treble frequencies I believe we find one or more of: (...)

What do you think?

Ron,

How many people have felt the vdH to be a bit edgy-sounding or to over-emphasize treble frequencies?

I think that negative generalizations with such low numbers can be very misleading, particularly are your classes are built on stereotypes that currently have as many exceptions as members.

 

[Solypsa]

If wbf data points are the focus I would be interested in a survey: of those happy with VdH Master Sig and Grand Cru what arm is it paired with? I know in many cases it is 3012r. How many 4pt? How many SAT? Others?


The arm match would be my first consideration. Next phono pre...

 

[bazelio]

I have an observation, which I would like to test as a theory.

I believe that I have noticed a correlation between the components in the systems of audiophiles who like the vdH Master Signature or Grand Cru (collectively, a "vdH") cartridge in their systems, and the components in the systems of those who find the vdH cartridge to be a bit edgy-sounding or to over-emphasize treble frequencies in their systems.

In many systems in which the audiophile finds the vdH to be a bit edgy-sounding or to over-emphasize treble frequencies I believe we find one or more of:

-- ceramic drivers

-- contemporary horn drivers

-- beryllium tweeters (excluding Rockport)

-- cool-balanced solid-state electronics

In many systems in which the audiophile likes the vdH in his system I believe we find one or more of:

-- Wilson, Rockport, Tannoy or other slighty warm-balanced loudspeakers

-- soft dome tweeters (excluding Rockport)

-- vintage horn drivers

-- tube electronics, and often Lamm in particular

-- warm-balanced solid-state electronics

I am not claiming the correlation is 1.0. But, as I casually think about members' reported views and the components in their systems, and the above general lists, I think the correlation is something around .70.

What do you think?

Hi Ron, which solid state electronics are you referring to as "cool-balanced"?

I'd also add dark-leaning wires to the pro-VdH camp.

I do think you're on to something in general.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron,

How many people have felt the vdH to be a bit edgy-sounding or to over-emphasize treble frequencies?

. . .

At least four WBF members have announced on WBF that they sold their vdHs. I know personally four other members in the over-emphasized treble frequencies group.

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . . your classes are built on stereotypes that currently have as many exceptions as members.

I don't think stereotypes have anything to do with the opening post.

I postulated a "likes" group and an "over-emphasized treble frequencies" group. I disagree that the number of people with vdH experience outside of these two groups exceeds the number of people inside the sum of these two groups.

And what does this have to do with the thrust of the opening post?

 

[kodomo]

Count me in the highs over-emphasized group, I have colibri ms sig strad with african blackwood 1.1mV. I tried on my 4 point, sent the cartridge back to be tamed and matched to a standard 4 point but I still find it too bright. I got VdH check it again for any faults or such and reported to me that it works perfect. This means I prefer the sound of my much less expensive Miyajima Madake on my setup. I kept the VdH in case I get an SME but I would now sell it for funding a new pre or a miyajima destiny.

 

[Ron Resnick]

If wbf data points are the focus I would be interested in a survey: of those happy with VdH Master Sig and Grand Cru what arm is it paired with? I know in many cases it is 3012r. How many 4pt? How many SAT? Others?


The arm match would be my first consideration. Next phono pre...

These are interesting and good questions, but they have nothing to do with the opening post. Please feel free to start a new thread or a poll, or both.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Hi Ron, which solid state electronics are you referring to as "cool-balanced"?

. . .

Maybe Boulder? Maybe Spectral? Maybe Soulution?

 

[bazelio]

Maybe Boulder? Maybe Spectral? Maybe Soulution?

So these amps intersect with the "over-emphasized" treble group?

 

[tima]

There you go, easy to understand!

Yet still irrelevant !