Very interesting Steve. Would you recommend the larger ones for the big Wilsons? And how do they get installed...the top looks solid, but is there a screw/adaptor to screw into the speaker? Or does the speaker rest on top? (presumably with the spikes removed?)
Center Stage2 "LS" Series Loudspeaker Feet
- Thread starter joelavrencik
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Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
They come with or without adapters however if the adapters are used on our speakers part of the dish extends out from the speaker. They have to be completely under the speaker. So place them under the speaker without adapters Spikes removed
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
As for which to use my preference is the LS 1.5 but having said that I have the LS 1.0’s under my speakers now and the sound after only : days is magnificent. The LS 1.5 however in my opinion delivers better bass.
If I could analogies .... If the LS 1.5 is worth a dollar IMO the LS1.0 is worth $0.90
If I could analogies .... If the LS 1.5 is worth a dollar IMO the LS1.0 is worth $0.90
Hey Joe and Steve, would the adapters i use with the Ultra 5s work the same as what you would supply? What are you referring to when you say the dish extends out from speaker? Are you saying the 1.5s footers fit under speaker, but the dish that the footer sits on extends beyond speaker? Also can i assume the .08s are not too far behind? Thanks, marc brown
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I'm intersted in an update on the LS 1.0 and how they compare to the LS 1.5, now when the LS 1.0 feet should have fully settled in?
Do you, or Joe, believe that the differences between these feet would be far less with lighter speakers, say of 1/2 or 1/3 of you speakers? My speakers are 260 lbs each.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Stay tuned as I have had the LS1.0 under my speakers for the past 3 weeks and before that the LS 1.5’s. Two days ago I put the LS 1.5 back under the speakers.
let me just give a teaser. Both of these feet are “perfect”. My review will outline the differences. I can say this that if you have LS 1.0’s and never heard tge LS 1.5 you’d be eternally happy. In fact some will prefer one over the other having heard both.
the one startling thing for me is that the overall effect of these speaker feet is IMO greater than the overall effect of the component feet yet with a system using both speaker feet and component feet the effect is staggering as I never thought there would be audible benefit with the speaker feet. I was so wrong. I would go so far in saying that im betting many people will opt initially for the speaker feet as they might decide that they dont need the feet for components. These speaker feet are so good that when I listen now I find myself in my sound room for an entire day. The sound is that good. Totally natural sounding and completely uncolored
I will be doing a review of the LS1.5 and LS 1.0 in the next few days
suffice it to say IMO Joe has hit a home run with these speaker feet. They are’s both perfect but I will review the differences I heard by
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
these feet are designed for all speakers. They have been tested under Magico M2 with the outrigger. It’s been tested under a VSA Anniversary and under Endeavor E5 all with the same results. It’s also going out to an owner of XLF and another owner of Magico M3. There is also a second user of Magico M3
so the Answer to your question is that they function just fine
unlike other footers these have no load intolerance
Hi marcbrown
I would not recommend using those adapters. Sorry. We use a titanium alloy adapter. It sounds better with our feet. Stainless steel and titanium are 2 different animals altogether, imo.
As far as placement is concerned, the feet have to be completely covered by the loudspeaker to function best. The spike cup ("saucer" or "dish") is a larger diameter than the top of the foot. This could stick out (or not) without affecting performance.
Please let me know if you have any more questions.
Thank you
Joe
Hi Stefan T
I won't comment on performance differences between the 1.0 and 1.5 until Steve renders his judgment, but I can comment on your question regarding loudspeaker weight.
The 1.0 and the 1.5 loudspeaker feet are designed to have no weight limit. Both have been tested under loudspeakers weighing from 100 lbs to 600 lbs. There seems to be no audible difference in performance caused by the weight of the speaker. So, I think I can say with great certainty that their performance differences would remain constant regardless the weight of the speaker.
I hope this helps.
All the Best,
Joe.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Hi Stefan
let me start by stating that this is a product I believe in and for full disclosure it is a product that I represent.I also use Joe's Critical Mass Systems Racks
The history of Center Stage is well documented in this subform as well as in my own personal system blog
https://whatsbestforum.com/threads/...e-new-listening-room-of-steve-williams.10535/
When Joe was about to release his Center Stage feet for components and I became a beta tester I was very negative about yet another footer as the market was flooded with them.It wasn't until I had them in my system and went through the settle in process so many times that I became a believer in the mechanism of action of these feet (Second Law of Thermodynamics). Discussing these feet can release mounds of hyperbole from just about every user and "no" we aren't drinking the Kool Aid"
My entire front end components and accessories all sit on their own individual CMS shelf and every component sits on a set of Center stage feet either size 1.0 or 1.5. My amplifiers and their power supplies all sit on CMS amp stands all supported with Center Stage 1.5's
My system had come to a level with the addition of these feet that I never thought achievable and last year to all intents and purposes I was done. I knew that Joe was working on R&D of Center Stage feet for under speakers. As I commented in earlier posts , I had zero interest in these feet as my system sounded so good and added to the fact that I had seen a picture of the prototype and it seemed so big that I wondered if I was going to need to readjust the upper modules of my Wilson X2's. Suffice it to say I was not hot on the subject when Joe told me they were done and would I please try them under my speakers. Several other sets were sent out to be evaluated under VSA and Magico speakers. What piqued my interest, and I have explained it here before, that these LS 1.5 feet were built using the 1.5 topology and in effect there were 5 of these 1.5's melded some how into the new LS 1.5. To me the CS2 was always the Full Monty of the Center Stage line so I had to hear these under my speakers.
My initial observations are summarized above. Once again I knew I was done until about 4 weeks ago Joe told me the LS 1.0's are ready and would I like to hear the difference in sound between the two. This was something that I absolutely wanted to do but I dreaded that predictable settle in period. However in my system the LS 1.5's settled by day 6-7 so I knew it would be start over to take the LS 1.5 's out and put the LS 1.0's under my speakers which would involve their own settle in. I knew they must be special but I had to know the difference between the LS 1.5 and LS 1.0 sonically
Here's a photo of the two feet side by side
Settle In Time with the LS 1.0
This for me was one go the most interesting facts. I have no idea if taking the LS 1.5's out and immediately inserting the LS1.0's shortened the settle in but suffice it to say that I had total settle in of the feet by the 4th day but remember the settle in process seems to be system dependent
The LS1.0's were under my speakers for 3 weeks and I have to say right up front that I was shocked by how good the LS 1.0 was in comparison to the LS 1.5. In fact I can say without hesitation that if one had only the LS 1.0 to use he would be eternally happy. These feet are truly PERFECT but the reality was I also called the LS 1.5 perfect so what is the difference.To me the LS 1.5 could be said to be "PROFOUNDLY PERFECT" as the difference was far from subtle
So What's the Difference Sonically between The LS 1.0 and LS 1.5
whenever I insert anything new into my system I have a huge demo disk of songs that I use and for the purposes of comparison there, the gain control on my preamp was always the same for both feet auditions
The first thing to mention is that there is zero coloration with either foot They are perfect from top to bottom and nothing stands out that catches my attention. The LS 1.0 just like the LS 1.5 had timbre, dynamics, soundstage improvement, ambience, decay and a soundstage that was so low that playing the LS 1.0 the perceived volume was louder even though no change in volume was done by me. These feet gained my total attention so much so that I forgot about the LS 1.5's until Joe reminded me that it would be a good time to swap out the feet. Listening to my system now, I truly was having a you are there moment....exactly what I said about the LS 1.5's. The LS 1.0 is built around the 1.0 topology and again each foot had the equivalent of 5 CS2 1.0's. IOW these were no slouch. Everything was better
So if everything is better and you have an "I am there experience" what can I say that makes the LS 1.5 profoundly perfect
Here is the best way that I can put some meaning to the difference......
Listening with the LS 1.5's lower the sound floor to virtually nonexistent levels. If I felt the volume seemed louder with the LS 1.0 the perceived volume with the LS 1.5 was even greater......so much so that not only did I have an "I am there experience but I am now in the first row listening whereas with the LS 1.0 I perceive myself to be in the 3rd-4th row.
As for the sound with the LS 1.5, it truly is the most real listening experience I have ever had but again if one has the LS 1.0 it comes very close
If I could say that if my system was worth $1.00 before with LS foot was used then I would say that using the LS 1.0 my system is now worth $1.10-$1.15 and using the LS 1.5 I would then say the system is now worth $1.25. What makes it worth more for me is how 3D my sound stage is now with greater depth and with. The Immersive effect with the LS 1.5 is extraordinary and far more Immersive with the speaker feet than with only the components feet . So the LS 1.0 will add easily 10% of improvement and the LS 1.5 in my system put the improvement at a whopping 25%
My comparison on the change in sound can also be compared this way
System with CS2 feet under components takes a Standard definition picture and makes it HD 1080p
Then the system with all of the component feet and the LS 1.0 changes the palette from 1080p to 4K which ain't too shabby
But the system plus the LS 1.5 for me changes everything from 4K to 8K as there is just so much sound stretched across the sound stage yet separate. It is so easy to distinguish where everyone is in the soundstage.
Well you might ask, "is the sound so profound because the artists and instruments are displayed way out of proportion and the answer to that is 'No" . The songs displayed a normal size artist and all the instruments were not only where they should be but everything could be heard so much better
Same also was true for the LS 1.0. Playing the same music at the same volume created the same soundstage etc. It just seems that there were fewer pixel as compared to the LS 1.5
I can relate to this analogy as I remember my thoughts when I went from SD to HD1080p TV and now 4K which I love. I don't own an 8K TV but if I did this would be the equivalent in sonic upgrade. My point is that the 1.0 is absolutelyPerfect in every way. So also is the LS 1.5. The difference however is such that I have to call it "Profoundly Perfect"
I knew that there are countless footers in the market and I have not heard them all but I think I have heard the best of the best and I used to be heavily invested in Stillpoints Ultra 5's and Ultra 6's which don't even come close as the rob the system of ambient sound which for me creates that sense of Presence. With the Center Stage LS 1.5 as well as the LS 1.0 as well or any of the Center Stage feet for that matter the ambient sound is not only there but the feeling of my being there is the best I have ever heard in my system
For me, my ears and my system I am going with the LS 1.5's.These now have also become a permanent part of my system. I have never heard or felt so involved with my system as when I used these LS 1.0 and LS 1.5 feet but just as the CS2 1.5 is the Full Monty for under components to my ears the LS 1.5 is also the Full Monty for under speakers
BTW I did not use either of the feet with adapters. They are easy to install. My wife and I removed one set and inserted the other set in under 5 minutes and my speaker weighs 750 lbs per channel
Some people will require adapters if they use outriggers and some people will only need 3 per channel whilst others will require 4. My advice is to use the same number feet as your speaker came with. Joe has adapters that will fit every speaker and he uses titanium adapters he found these to be. sonic benefit
In summary either of these feet are system changers and provide so much sonic improvement that I can see many people will buy these first and then decide whether they want to add them under their components. Having now my entire system on these feet, I have never been happier with my system. Thank you Joe for hitting this home run
Finally to answer the question about the need to adjust the upper modules on my Wilson speakers, I did not feel a need to do such and from what I hear I think I am just fine
I like the visual comparison. It is true; audio reproduced at or near its highest level becomes visual. The mechanisms that make this happen are the intrinsic design potential of the loudspeakers and the reduction of entropy within the cabinets using principles of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. My job is to help reveal the excellent engineering in your components. The components do the rest.
Hey Joe, no problem there, was not interested in saving $, just what you suggested mattered to me. On the Ultra5s, a credit card thickness gap was suggested by them, so that they do not touch the speakers. Are you saying your footer should be flush against speaker, so that is why you say the feet have to be completely covered by the loudspeaker to function best? Also one thing i am perplexed by, when speaking of when you where putting together the 1.5 you mentioned you had Steve's speakers in mind for a proper test due to the bigness, complexity, ect. Recently in a statement by you about the 1.0s and 1.5s was that both could handle the weight. So is the bigness and complexity with multiple boxes the reason why a 1.5 is better than the 1.0s for Steve's speakers? Thanks marc brown PS
Hi marcbrown,
Thanks for the clarification. Yes, you have it exactly right. No gap. Completely covered.
I want to make sure I answer your question in full, so if I misunderstand please tell me. We designed the 1.0s to handle the same weight load as the 1.5. We could do it so this seemed to be a good way to go.
The reason the 1.5 sounds "better" than the 1.0s on Steve's has to do with the internal structure of the foot and the damping required to make each foot "perfect", to use Steve's word.
The 1.5 will always sound "better" than the the 1.0 on every loudspeaker This is because it can produce a lower noise floor. When you strip away more internal cabinet noise and leave the music untouched, you get a much greater sense of reality. We are able to do this better with the 1.5. But, the 1.0 is really as good as we could make it.
We balance impedance with damping and the impedance/damping ratios for both feet are dialed in to the 10,000th of an inch. This is the key.
Am I making sense?
Joe
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Marc
here is what I wrote......
https://whatsbestforum.com/threads/center-stage2-ls-series-loudspeaker-feet.31264/page-4#post-680747
Simply put they both function under my speakers...
My comment was that the LS1.0 was Perfect whereas I said the LS 1.5 was Profoundly Perfect. The sound floor is so low with the 1.5 that I am hearing things which I have never heard before. As a result the sound stage has come alive and with the Immersive effect, I feel as If I am in the soundstage which makes it for me a "you are there experience"
here is what I wrote......
https://whatsbestforum.com/threads/center-stage2-ls-series-loudspeaker-feet.31264/page-4#post-680747
Simply put they both function under my speakers...
My comment was that the LS1.0 was Perfect whereas I said the LS 1.5 was Profoundly Perfect. The sound floor is so low with the 1.5 that I am hearing things which I have never heard before. As a result the sound stage has come alive and with the Immersive effect, I feel as If I am in the soundstage which makes it for me a "you are there experience"
Are you using with or without adapters on your Wilsons? Probably not safe without adapters on heavy speakers? Do you have pictures with adapters?
Hi knghifi
The LS 1.5s Steve uses are 3" in diameter. So, 4 of the feet support a large amount of area under the speaker. As long as there is no "bull in a china shop" loose in your listening room, there is no safety issue as the speakers are level and stable on the surface area of the feet.
We are working on some photography with adapters, but it's not done yet.
I hope this helps.
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