Ian, we agree it has become a contentious and often unpleasant place lately. What exactly is the BS to which you are referring? Could you be very specific? And why would you state that customers and friends of a dealer are disciples and shills? What do you mean by this?
CH Precision 10 series
- Thread starter Elliot G.
- Start date
Ian, we agree it has become a contentious and often unpleasant place lately. What exactly is the BS to which you are referring? Could you be very specific? And why would you state that customers and friends of a dealer are disciples and shills? What do you mean by this?
I never asked “these guys” to tell me anything. I was simply responding to you asking me what I was puzzled about.
You’re popping decoy flares to avoid answering my simple hypothetical question: “Would you be puzzled if audiophiles who have your speakers switched from low power SETs to CH amplifiers to drive your speakers?”
If the question makes no sense to you, I respect that and we can drop it.
Last edited:
I explained it so many times that people are now also using it with the exact meaning - identifying a specific preference. You always try to switch discussion to semantic debates, sorry it is not my interest.
Can I suggest you to read most of the forum, not just the posts that use the word "natural"?
Using a concept often referred by Ralph Karsten of Atmasphere I would not expect a speaker that seems to belong to the power paradigm to sound great with an amplifier of the voltage paradigm such as the CH at high feedback. But the CH has variable damping and we do not have full measurements on the very low feedback mode.
You haven’t explained anything. I reply directly to your posts but you don’t come back with responses and this is another post you avoided a response to my questions.I explained it so many times that people are now also using it with the exact meaning - identifying a specific preference. You always try to switch discussion to semantic debates, sorry it is not my interest.
Can I suggest you to read most of the forum, not just the posts that use the word "natural"?
david
A more recent system for me was Lampi 211 amps powering Teresonic Ingenium Silver XR's, and I would have to say that the attribute I loved most was a sort of "lit from within" luminosity of sound sources, which came from an element of "crystalline purity". But it has a purity that I find rather complete, fleshing out the whole development of attack/sustain/decay in a way that feels like live music to me. Those speakers matched very well with tubes, and I liked it as an alternate take on music making.
My wife essentially insisted that I not keep a separate system perpetually in storage in our basement, so I had to choose one system to keep, and I chose the TAD CR-1's because they better suited the full range of all genres that I enjoy. And, for me, they have a truer total voice, albeit a demanding one for matching system. I like their "crystalline purity", when properly driven, which the CHP 10 series does very nicely. They certainly are not romantic - - they don't make every recording inviting, let's say, but they don't drive me away from my flawed recordings at all. They just show them for what they are sonically, and you get to enjoy the music that they still bring. Of course, a great recording adds the sonic thrill to complement the musical involvement, making both my mimic's ear and musical lover's heart happy!
In an effort to de-couple this thread specifically about CH Precision from the natural sound discussion, I just wrote a post on Peter’s natural sound thread.
See you over there!
See you over there!
No David, you seldom reply directly to my posts - you masterly try to switch the subject in another direction. And remember that we are abusively having this discussion in this thread only after post #198 https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/ch-precision-10-series.32193/post-822074
Thank you for sharing your thoughts here.
I did not mean to imply that Andy Payor or Arnie were fans of SET amplifiers. I mentioned them because I believe they formerly had high-power, push-pull tube amps.
This was the question to you when I replied directly to your post but continue avoid responding! That link was part of a chain nothing to do with this one, why don't you answer directly instead of irrelevant posts that have nothing to do with what I asked about your comments?
david
You keep saying it but where's the TM explanation as it relates to sound and not personal attacks. Your appropriation comment was nothing but personal yet you say you're not interested in personal exchanges, how big of you!
david
I'll be blunt. Peter, there are people who feel that you are being compensated for your praise of certain gear because it brings a certain dealer more business. Obviously this is pure speculation/gossip or whatever you want to call it, but it's not an uncommon practice. As for BS, many of us feel that pretty much anything that comes out of a certain dealer's mouth is disinformation (mostly because it's viewed as preposterous), aimed at elevating this person's expertise to a level beyond the competition and creating the mystique of a guru with elite cult-like status.
The membership on this forum includes many who make money here. This includes dealers who will swear you are the ONLY person that didn't hear the 'magic' of their product when in fact this is the opposite of the truth (and so easily corroborated by talking to others) that for the most part this forum is not much different from an audio magazine with reviews designed to sell product. It's as much a marketplace as it is anything else and with audio, where nothing is truly measurable and very subjective, many audiophiles can be easily manipulated.
I don't follow why SET is being tied to natural... Just because some gear is SET that sounds natural certainly does not make it all. I've heard SET sound from weird to out right bizarre before.
Yes, I am a shill for using the sound of live acoustic instruments as a reference for gauging my stereo.
But I am curious about the BS part. What do think is BS or otherwise dissemblance or false? If you want to throw this out there it is only reasonable to ask what exactly do you mean?
What is preposterous? Anything "a certain dealer" says? Why not skip the cheesy inuendo and say who you mean, otherwise I assume you're talking about David (@ddk). I don't think you know him. I suggest you look through a few threads in this section of WBF: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/forums/david-karmeli-discusses-5-reference-turntables-forum.356/ to see what others have to say -- do you see people making the sorts of claims you are? Is there the slightest possibility you are misjudging him?
Beyond third-party dealers who sell products via ads or forum posts, you should recognize that WBF is a business. Probably a profit making business. There is a sophisticated technological infrastructure that supports our ability to particpate here and it is not cheap to maintain the service or the people who support it. There are no user fees to participate. People pay to advertise.
Advertisers hope to get business from their ads but what they want most is exposure of their products to this audience -- and they want some evidence of that exposure. One of the most common 'proofs' of exposure is user counts on the pages where their ad is displayed. It is not by accident that a thread about speakers will have ads about speakers. In rough terms, WBF's product is eyeballs. It sells viewership to advertisers.
The higher the eyeball count the more likely ads will be placed here. Ask yourself what draws in viewers. Among other things that would be: a) discussion of products in which a user has an interest, b) the opportunity to socialize with others with common interests, c) contention, heated discussion, arguments -- accidents draw gawkers.
The rules/guidelines here are pretty wide open and you can say almost anything without curse or open slander. Moderation ebbs and flows. Why do you think certain people consistently create threads about products in which it is highly likely they have no genuine interest -- sometimes known as click-bait? Eyeballs. Why do you think contentiousness is not discouraged? Eyeballs.
None of this is nefarious or underhanded -- just recognize it for what it is. It would not surprise me that certain members are compensated for their participation, but that is pure speculation on my part. As you suggest, it is common elsewhere.
It is also the case that some people here are steady contributors and helpful, and some are steady consumers, some do a little of both some mostly kibitz and joke and few whine a lot.
Madfloyd, I'll give you credit for being blunt although I don't believe an accusation that Peter is bought. That is based on my reading his posts and through personal interaction with him. David is very successful and he does not need Peter to 'sell' for him. Disagree with him or any of us as you will. I think charging him with being a shill steps over a line.
Shit @PeterA . You are one lucky dude. I was offered a pair of Eurodyn with baffle and every thing. Field coil too. From a Japanese original owner at half the price of what I am paying. May be I forgot to officially apply for The Natural Sound TM discount.
Maybe it doesn't follow because it's not the case. I don't think anyone says natural is the exclusive province of SETs. They can be an example. I use SS class A, push-pull Lamm M1.2s which are not SETs and I consider them capable of supporting natural sound. I also heard them sounding natural on horns in Utah. There are other topologies that can sound natural besides SETs.
Hello I replied to you the best i could .
I had a bit trouble of finding your post again because of all the spam on this CH thread
Peter can speak for himself but since this is aimed at me I’ll respond myself. First, ridiculous as it is I prefer the candor Ian and I have no problem with what you said about me. I can guess the source of these accusations and his reasons but I do care about Peter, it’s the 2nd time tonight that you accuse him of shilling. Use your head Peter’s your friend what is it exactly that I sell to need a Shill for? Audiophile wires that I don’t sell, acoustic treatments or tweaks that I don’t sell, electronics and speakers that I don’t carry, services that I don’t charge for or is it the recommendations of high value gear that can easily found on the net? What I control are the products I manufacture, they‘re exclusive, limited and highly desirable, I decide who gets them including parts of my collection. they’re not offered to anyone and they generally sold out far in advance of production.
As for expertise some of us have it, very broad experience and decades of it. A lot more than a dude stuffing a roll of store bought cable in pantyhose. You better get specific about my misinformation, you’re a beneficiary some might think you stupid for listening to me. I’ll be blunt now. I don’t care for you or your insults and even less of your feelings for me and that includes your entire TM gang. It doesn’t matter why you’re going off like this when aside from a dinner we never had any interaction, perhaps this is who you are.
WBF is a unique forum where audiophiles and the industry have direct access to one another. Participation and engagement is voluntary beneficial to both sides, have you not taken advantage of this relasionship?
david
Similar threads
