Chronosonic XVX.

[LL21]

Caesar

again what you fail to understand is that you have taken a few words out of a very positive review and flipped them to a meaning contrary to that of the reviewer so that you can spin your web for whatever speaker floats your boat. You continue to batter any and all manufacturers that don’t foster your sense of what sounds right (which BTW I feel you have a right to do). Rather it’s how you do it. It’s posts such as yours that drive manufacturers away from places such as our little neck of the internet. There are ways to make a point but to blatantly take something out of context to serve your means is just something that bothers the hell out of me

Agree...it shows poor discernment or as some have suggested, warped. Either way, fatally incorrect.

In regards to designing a speaker to play back what's on the original recording, I imagine many designers who aim for this realize that to do this...they must own their own reference recordings which they recorded themselves and mastered.

Doesn't David Wilson have his own recordings? I thought he started his business by doing live recordings and masterings which are still available today? I believe I have seen that the original artists who worked on them are even still collaborating with Wilson? I am pretty sure Gryphon also has a few hundred original tapes in their reference library which they use...and frankly, these 2 cannot be the only ones. In fact, having read up on Zanden, I think Yamada San has personally recorded over 500 live performances or something so he too has those to act as references.

 

[Al M.]

No it is. But we got your point when you took up half the Magico house sound thread

Haha, half. Have you counted the posts ?

 

[andromedaaudio]

Agree...it shows poor discernment or as some have suggested, warped. Either way, fatally incorrect.

In regards to designing a speaker to play back what's on the original recording, I imagine many designers who aim for this realize that to do this...they must own their own reference recordings which they recorded themselves and mastered.

Doesn't David Wilson have his own recordings? I thought he started his business by doing live recordings and masterings which are still available today? I believe I have seen that the original artists who worked on them are even still collaborating with Wilson? I am pretty sure Gryphon also has a few hundred original tapes in their reference library which they use...and frankly, these 2 cannot be the only ones. In fact, having read up on Zanden, I think Yamada San has personally recorded over 500 live performances or something so he too has those to act as references.

Something like this

https://6moons.com/industryfeatures/zanden/zanden.html

Ps in this piece they actually state cables do matter ..... which is a lie off course

 

[microstrip]

Wilson has much more bass weight than Magico. Magico sounds quite light compared to Wilson. Those who prefer Magico over Wilson in bass will find Magico's bass cleaner and faster and more detailed, and Wilson's muddier.

Nice. It is clear from now what you prefer.

Magico disappear more easily than Wilson in a room.

And I would say that the room disappears much easier with Wilson's. The Magico lighter balance hides the speaker, but binds the soundstage to the room.

They are more coherent than Wilsons. In Wilson, once you go over Sasha 2, coherence becomes a challenge. They sound like separate speakers, you can hear the instruments through in separate sections.

I disagree . At less those I have large experience - the Alexia and XLF - are extremely coherent.

Wilson is warmer than Magico. It is also more colored than Magico, though I also find Magico tonally grey. It has more density than Magico. Magico sounds more detailed than wilson.

If you listen to a Wilson room, the overall feeling will be off a larger sound, more density, warmth, weight. If you go to Magico room overall feeling will be cleaner, faster, more transparent and coherent, less room interaction. Those who prefer Wilson will find Magico colder. I have no real preference for one over the other. I find both not natural in tone and timbre, and they project sound to create artificial soundstages. I find them both quite slow though Magico is faster than Wilson. Tone, micro and macro dynamics, is quite poor by horn standards.

Good points, you are addressing aspects relevant to people preference. Soundstage in stereo is an artificial illusionary process, we must create it using the recording information. Room interaction is needed in stereo, but the amount depends on listener. No agreement at all between people on this aspect.

The advantages of bass weight in Wilson is best felt using an amp like Dagostino. Using valves reduces this but adds decay which for me becomes too much colour. Those who like Wilson with valves seem more focused on midrange, but then I wonder why they simply don't buy Martin Logans. Many who buy Wilson get taken in by the bass, which I feel is a non-natural artefact designed to impress at shows. I remember one of the manufacturers of a competing cone telling me he wanted to make the next flagship to compete with Alexandria on bass. He really respected Alexandria's level of bass, and felt he was losing customers on that front though his speaker had better coherence and tone.

Simply because they prefer the full range sound and integration of the Wislon's to the Martin Logan. I have owned Prodigy and liked them a lot, but find the midrange of the XLF more life like, for example a piano sounding more like a real instrument in a concert.

If people get taken by a speaker it is because they prefer it. If a manufacturer looses customers to another brand it is simply because he his targeting people with difference preferences. And surely any manufacturer thinks is product sounds better in some aspects!

Surely all IMMO, YMMV. BTW, although I feel I could happily live with either brand - I like the Q7 a lot - statistically I listened to much better sound sessions with Wilson's than with Magico's. Even when Alon was demoing his speakers.

 

[bonzo75]

Nice. It is clear from now what you prefer.

Actually, you got that wrong. I prefer neither, but of all the Magico and Wilson systems I have heard, the best have been the Dagostino Alexandria, X2S2, then the Dagostino Sasha 2, and the Grand Slamm X1 owned by Gian's friend with Riviera.

Nice. It is clear from now what you prefer.

I disagree . At less those I have large experience - the Alexia and XLF - are extremely coherent.

The Alexia 1 was probably the least good of all Wilsons. In fact the Sasha 1, Sophia, and Alexia 1 series was the weak link between watt puppies and the Sasha 2. I have heard the XLF with VTL S400 and Spectral 400s. Quite poor with VTL, heaviliy muddied midbass and the mouth of the singer is like half open, highly rolled off. Incoherent with both amps.

The midrange of the Wilsons is very artificial to that of the MLs.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Wilson has much more bass weight than Magico. Magico sounds quite light compared to Wilson. Those who prefer Magico over Wilson in bass will find Magico's bass cleaner and faster and more detailed, and Wilson's muddier.

Magico disappear more easily than Wilson in a room. They are more coherent than Wilsons. In Wilson, once you go over Sasha 2, coherence becomes a challenge. They sound like separate speakers, you can hear the instruments through in separate sections.

Wilson is warmer than Magico. It is also more colored than Magico, though I also find Magico tonally grey. It has more density than Magico. Magico sounds more detailed than wilson.

If you listen to a Wilson room, the overall feeling will be off a larger sound, more density, warmth, weight. If you go to Magico room overall feeling will be cleaner, faster, more transparent and coherent, less room interaction. Those who prefer Wilson will find Magico colder. I have no real preference for one over the other. I find both not natural in tone and timbre, and they project sound to create artificial soundstages. I find them both quite slow though Magico is faster than Wilson. Tone, micro and macro dynamics, is quite poor by horn standards

The advantages of bass weight in Wilson is best felt using an amp like Dagostino. Using valves reduces this but adds decay which for me becomes too much colour. Those who like Wilson with valves seem more focused on midrange, but then I wonder why they simply don't buy Martin Logans. Many who buy Wilson get taken in by the bass, which I feel is a non-natural artefact designed to impress at shows. I remember one of the manufacturers of a competing cone telling me he wanted to make the next flagship to compete with Alexandria on bass. He really respected Alexandria's level of bass, and felt he was losing customers on that front though his speaker had better coherence and tone.

YG - I prefer YG to both, though some online discussions seem to suggest people finding similarities with both YG and Magico. I have no idea why, except they listen to YG at shows. YG is on Magico side of neutral rather than Wilson, and disappears easily as well. It feels more like an electrostat and has better decay than Magico and I find it more musical. At least at Hailey level, the bass is lighter than Magico and I feel subs are required.

Actually, Avalon if well set up has very good coherence through the drivers, very good bass, and timbre. Very natural. and disappears well. But requires a lot of room. In cones, B&W D3 series also has good weight, one that I like. Zellaton has possibly the best midrange, like a ribbon planar, at least when heard with FM. Stenheim is similar size to Magico with more bass and soundstage and efficiency.

Very well-written, Kedar! In general I found many observations in here with which I agree.

Except I personally prefer the Alexx to every Wilson speaker before it, and to every smaller Wilson speaker after it, and I find the Master Chronosonic / XVX speakers not to exhibit your concern about coherency (with appropriate listening distance, of course). I don't know what magic dust Wilson sprinkled on these new flagships but I think they sound amazing.

XVX + Master Subsonics

versus

YG Sonja XV + Invincibles

would be very interesting to me!

 

[Tango]

The way I see it. Tone is something we should not be debating. Way too subjective. Ked said the mid of Wilson is more artificial to ML. Micro said piano from his Wilson sound more life like than Magico. Peter probably thinks his Magico piano sounds more correct. Thank goodness they all still hear piano as piano not harpsichord from any speakers.

 

[Alrainbow]

Tang,

I can Agree WIlson is way more life like on Piano than Magico and on classical in general ..

Agree also this is all very subjective and should be approached as such , been into what i thought were really bad sounding rooms at shows only to hear others rave to death over the sound ..

Lol

 

[bonzo75]

The way I see it. Tone is something we should not be debating. Way too subjective. Ked said the mid of Wilson is more artificial to ML. Micro said piano from his Wilson sound more life like than Magico. Peter probably thinks his Magico piano sounds more correct. Thank goodness they all still hear piano as piano not harpsichord from any speakers.

How is tone subjective with respect to real? I agree between Wilson and Magico and focal, it is subjective preference. But neither of them sounds real

 

[Alrainbow]

Actually, you got that wrong. I prefer neither, but of all the Magico and Wilson systems I have heard, the best have been the Dagostino Alexandria, X2S2, then the Dagostino Sasha 2, and the Grand Slamm X1 owned by Gian's friend with Riviera.



The Alexia 1 was probably the least good of all Wilsons. In fact the Sasha 1, Sophia, and Alexia 1 series was the weak link between watt puppies and the Sasha 2. I have heard the XLF with VTL S400 and Spectral 400s. Quite poor with VTL, heaviliy muddied midbass and the mouth of the singer is like half open, highly rolled off. Incoherent with both amps.

The midrange of the Wilsons is very artificial to that of the MLs.

I don't like Wilson on VTL except the new small ones , obviously i would expect no clipping on the big SS stuff and the higher voltage allows better bass control , so no surprise there ...

 

[Alrainbow]

No Hifi system sounds real Ked , so hence it’s all different level of subjectiveness ..

 

[bonzo75]

No Hifi system sounds real Ked , so hence it’s all different level of subjectiveness ..

Some sound downright fake and synthetic, and then car stereos and Samsung S10 sound more real

 

[Alrainbow]

True , But if they’re happy

 

[bonzo75]

True , But if they’re happy

This is what's best forum not who is happy forum. Most Audiophiles by nature are unhappy with something or the other

 

[Steve Williams]

IMO this debate is an endless circle of subjective comments and really means nothing until one hears that system in one's own home


Ked with all due respect some of your comments almost made me throw up in my breakfast cereal as I feel they are so incorrect. For you to blatantly state when you listen to Wison you hear music come from each channel. I would submit to you that this is nothing more than poor set up and you know this. Your all encompassing and sweeping statements IMO are nothing but opinions. For someone who claims to have heard it all and know it all I have to just say that this is all subjective and clearly nothing more than your opinion. BTW what speakers and system are you listening to at your home or are you still the roving reporter giving blanket statements that you consider gospel. We all get it about your preferences and what you like but to say you have heard this that and the other played with this that and the other components do this but not that is merely conjecture and opinion on your part

I respect everyone's opinions as to which components and speakers serve them well but when you make comments which IMO are so biased that it leaves me shaking my head.

 

[bonzo75]

IMO this debate is an endless circle of subjective comments and really means nothing until one hears that system in one's own home


Ked with all due respect some of your comments almost made me throw up in my breakfast cereal as I feel they are so incorrect. For you to blatantly state when you listen to Wison you hear music come from each channel. I would submit to you that this is nothing more than poor set up and you know this. Your all encompassing and sweeping statements IMO are nothing but opinions. For someone who claims to have heard it all and know it all I have to just say that this is all subjective and clearly nothing more than your opinion. BTW what speakers and system are you listening to at your home or are you still the roving reporter giving blanket statements that you consider gospel. We all get it about your preferences and what you like but to say you have heard this that and the other played with this that and the other components do this but not that is merely conjecture and opinion on your part

I respect everyone's opinions as to which components and speakers serve them well but when you make comments which IMO are so biased that it leaves me shaking my head.

If you are listening to something in your home it's the best in your opinion Steve. And anything I write is always my opinion unless stated otherwise

 

[Steve Williams]

Ked
you have a way of lobbing posts into a thread which tend to hover and these posts I believe to be nothing more than your opinion and entirely subjective. There is no one thing that means all to everyone. I do respect your opinion as to what you heard as I believe it to be valuable, but a comment such as when you listen to Wilson speakers you always hear music coming from one speaker or the other to me is simply faulty set up but you leave it linger for the reader to gain some inference

 

[Tango]

How is tone subjective with respect to real? I agree between Wilson and Magico and focal, it is subjective preference. But neither of them sounds real

Micro believes his tone is more real when you think it is not approximation of real. The Boston boys went to the same concert yet still has disagreement on tone of what they heard once at home. What do you call this?

 

[Steve Williams]

Micro believes his tone is more real when you think it is not approximation of real. The Boston boys went to the same concert yet still has disagreement on tone of what they heard once at home. What do you call this?

it's called subjectivity

 

[Tango]

and then car stereos and Samsung S10 sound more real

Not just any car stereos Ked. The cargo van's .