Chronosonic XVX.

[microstrip]

I am one of the guys that dont even trust my own hearing memory. Time lag, gear differences, raising heart rate from moving heavy gears.. Those things always make me skeptical. A/B in the same system with minimal time lag is what I trust.

A/B with minimal time lag is most of the time carried in a very uncontrolled and biased way and needs long and statistically valid evaluaitions. Surely in this hobby we are the defendant, the layer, the jury and the judge, we always pick what we prefer, idependently of method.

I am a believer in long and repeated evaluations, with all the risks that this process carries, athough I sometimes do A/B with digital acessories or tweaks that I am sure will not change the sound level.

 

[Tango]

A/B with minimal time lag is most of the time carried in a very uncontrolled and biased way and needs long and statistically valid evaluaitions.

Aye Aye Capitan.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Yes, I always claim that a lot of controls are needed in direct short time A/B tests, if people want to carry them and take conclusions from them. As these conditions are almost never met, I take these reports with plenty of care.

Fortunately my listening of X2, XLF of WAMM was not an A/B test and I could listen to all of them with different electronics a significant time in several sessions, some of them using my own preferred recordings.

Enough people with known review work have explained with great detail why the WAMMs are such great speakers, much better than I could do. If people are really interested these detailed reports are easily available. Surely skeptics can always fuel their skepticism using their imagination ...

i don't view my perspective as skeptical about the WAMM. and make sure you realize that is your word, not mine.

my view is a more general view about the significance of any speaker in a subset of a speaker family. and whether it can rise above system differences and result in a superior result no matter what......just buy THIS speaker and you will be there.

i give more weight to the whole system. OTOH i'm maybe more invested in a whole system approach than anyone. so i get that others see it different, they don't walk in my shoes.

and that does not mean that the WAMM does not do unique things that are audible, only that those things won't often make up for significant system deficiencies to equal a better result.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, Could it not have been the combination of the various components of that system and set up? Or one of the other components? Was your impression based on the system with the AF0? How were you able to isolate the contribution of the speakers and subs to the overall sound?

Obviously it’s not possible to isolate the speakers from the rest of the system. I cannot empirically or objectively defend my impression.

But when I think about all of the Wilson Audio speaker based systems I have heard over the years, the Master Chronosonic and Subsonic system manifested an openness and life-like sonic size and a sense of unlimited ceiling and limitless dynamic capability that I had never heard before in any Wilson-based system.

This is purely a guess but I think this impression versus other Wilson speakers may be due to the doubling up of the midrange and lower midrange (upper bass?) driver surfaces of the WAMM.

(After recent auditioning experiences I think tentatively that increasing the midrange driver surface area is a key factor in raising the openess and transparency and dynamic capability of box speakers. I think this is the way to vanquish the “congealed” sound of smaller speakers and to avoid the sensation of sound trying noticeably hard to escape from a box.)

 

[bonzo75]

Enough people with known review work have explained with great detail why the WAMMs are such great speakers, much better than I could do. If people are really interested these detailed reports are easily available. Surely skeptics can always fuel their skepticism using their imagination ...

The only reports I have seen are polite show reports like maybe a thousand others, no reviews. Did Fremer or someone actually review it properly?

On the other hand, I know of three well known industry experts who have been into Mr. T's room, and while their opinions are not published on the forum, they are known if you ask the right people.

 

[Tango]

So, does this xlf has a trace of sound presentation of the Master Croc? Or is there nothing in common. Common I am asking the way they present sound not making any judgement or criticizing the speakers.

If I remember correctly Micro put up a video of the Master Croc once. Was that with dCs. I could not find them to compare. Once again, compare the sound presentation to hear a trace of difference not criticizing or judging.

My stance copies Mike as below.

i don't view my perspective as skeptical about the WAMM. and make sure you realize that is your word, not mine.

my view is a more general view about the significance of any speaker in a subset of a speaker family.

This system has top Boulders, dCs, etc. Regardless of what ddk said I think it sounds interesting.

 

[bonzo75]

So, does this xlf has a trace of sound presentation of the Master Croc? Or is there nothing in common. Common I am asking the way they present sound not making any judgement or criticizing the speakers.

If I remember correctly Micro put up a video of the Master Croc once. Was that with dCs. I could not find them to compare. Once again, compare the sound presentation to hear a trace of difference not criticizing or judging.

My stance copies Mike as below.





This system has top Boulders, dCs, etc. Regardless of what ddk said I think it sounds interesting.

I have heard X2S2 with Lamm stack, viva stack, and CH stack. Also with Spectral at Marty's. I have heard XLF with VTL and Spectral in the same system. Best I heard was X2S2 with Dagostino Momentums, but carefully set up over the years. I then heard the Sasha 2 with the Dag stereo and it reminded me of that sound. I think the Sasha 2 is their most coherent spreaker, I haven't heard the Alexx.

The other best Wilson set up I heard was Gian's friend Carlo who has the older X1 Grand Slam. I have heard it evolve over visits, and it was only after he installed the top Riviera with a tube roll and his AN IO Ltd cart with Micro Seiki BL 111 with vacuum hold down ( an analog set up which apart from Gian, Mik and the General both rate as a guy who knows what he is doing in terms of value sound optimization) that it sounded extremely engaging and musical.

That said, I have heard the Boulder only in the video, and I have heard 2160 in actual amp compares with YG, never with Wilson, but I think that is a fair representation.

Though I don't think any of Micro's set ups would sound that way because he is not properly driving his speakers, but that is separate. This could be because of what he mentioned in post 81, "I am a believer in long and repeated evaluations, with all the risks that this process carries", and I think that risk has manifested into an issue big time

 

[bonzo75]

Tang, you were looking for the WAMM video's micro put up?

 

[gian60]

I would be much more interested to old Wamm,with their 2 KEF B 139 for mid bass,beautiful driver and 15 Janszen electrostatic cells
Sure less coherence than the new but......

One is selling in Italy at good price but i know have some problems

 

[microstrip]

I have heard X2S2 with Lamm stack, viva stack, and CH stack. Also with Spectral at Marty's. I have heard XLF with VTL and Spectral in the same system. Best I heard was X2S2 with Dagostino Momentums, but carefully set up over the years. I then heard the Sasha 2 with the Dag stereo and it reminded me of that sound. I think the Sasha 2 is their most coherent spreaker, I haven't heard the Alexx.

The other best Wilson set up I heard was Gian's friend Carlo who has the older X1 Grand Slam. I have heard it evolve over visits, and it was only after he installed the top Riviera with a tube roll and his AN IO Ltd cart with Micro Seiki BL 111 with vacuum hold down ( an analog set up which apart from Gian, Mik and the General both rate as a guy who knows what he is doing in terms of value sound optimization) that it sounded extremely engaging and musical.

That said, I have heard the Boulder only in the video, and I have heard 2160 in actual amp compares with YG, never with Wilson, but I think that is a fair representation.

Though I don't think any of Micro's set ups would sound that way because he is not properly driving his speakers, but that is separate. This could be because of what he mentioned in post 81, "I am a believer in long and repeated evaluations, with all the risks that this process carries", and I think that risk has manifested into an issue big time

You are just reporting how a few particular Wilson systems match with your preferences. Nice summary, but extremely limited and biased IMHO.

Concerning your insinuation of properly driving the XLFs fortunately I have different opinions from people I respect and my experience in my system and others is very different from yours.

 

[microstrip]

I would be much more interested to old Wamm,with their 2 KEF B 139 for mid bass,beautiful driver and 15 Janszen electrostatic cells
Sure less coherence than the new but......

One is selling in Italy at good price but i know have some problems

Do you expect that the old WAMMs to sound better than the new ones in any particular aspect?

Or is it just nostalgia, like I felt recently for the Mark Levinson HQD system, our eternal desire of finding the fountain of youth?

 

[gian60]

I have emotion listening Beveridge,Quad 57,JBL 4343,IRS, besides mine

Listening XLF,Magico M6 and M7,Big Lansche,Sonus Faber Aida,for exemple,in friends home or distributor friends with good setup, absolutly don't like a lot or no emotion,but i cannot explain why

 

[bonzo75]

I have emotion listening Beveridge,Quad 57,JBL 4343,IRS, besides mine

Listening XLF,Magico M6 and M7,Big Lansche,Sonus Faber Aida,for exemple,in friends home or distributor friends with good setup, absolutly don't like a lot or no emotion,but i cannot explain why

I know why but will save for another time another thread

 

[microstrip]

I have emotion listening Beveridge,Quad 57,JBL 4343,IRS, besides mine

Listening XLF,Magico M6 and M7,Big Lansche,Sonus Faber Aida,for exemple,in friends home or distributor friends with good setup, absolutly don't like a lot or no emotion,but i cannot explain why

Yes, emotions are great, and ownership plays a large part in this feeling.
But sometimes emotions push us to crazy acts. An almost mint very early pair ESL 57 in untouched condition, I could not resist ...

 

[gian60]

I see you have Artesania and Finite Elemente.
I am interesting to buy one or the other
Which do you think sound better?
New Finite Elemente mk II has honeycomb core shelf with ceramic ball coupling
Thanks

 

[microstrip]

I see you have Artesania and Finite Elemente.
I am interesting to buy one or the other
Which do you think sound better?
New Finite Elemente mk II has honeycomb core shelf with ceramic ball coupling
Thanks

I only have recent experience with the Artesania - you are seeing the TechDas rack custom built by Artesania to their specification - and just with analog, I have not yet compared them. I really like the looks of new Finite Elemente - I prefer wood to steel. However the Artesania rack was a firm TechDas recommendation, I felt I should not ignore it.

 

[gian60]

thanks

 

[metaphacts]

I would be much more interested to old Wamm,with their 2 KEF B 139 for mid bass,beautiful driver and 15 Janszen electrostatic cells
Sure less coherence than the new but......

One is selling in Italy at good price but i know have some problems

We have refurbished numerous original WAMMs in recent years. Most have been for clients who have purchased a Master Chronosonic who want to own the first WAMM for historical reasons.

Wilson has a stock of parts sufficient to rebuild all of the original WAMMs in the field.

 

[ALF]

We have refurbished numerous original WAMMs in recent years. Most have been for clients who have purchased a Master Chronosonic who want to own the first WAMM for historical reasons.

Wilson has a stock of parts sufficient to rebuild all of the original WAMMs in the field.

Sweet...does WA have a picture of them side by side?

 

[steve williams]

Let me try.........