Coronavirus ...

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spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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Sure Ron, don't want "unnecessary conflict" to be my middle name(s) lol
 
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Tango

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is it the virus that created the feat or the hype? The death rate among ages 19 to 49 is like 0.3%. A normal bad flu rate...
No. Ofcourse not. So as its spread. The hype is human nature triggered by very reasonable measures to restrict the break out. Small death rate is still death. It is very contagious. People don't want to get sick, hospitalized or face a chance of dying. I am stating facts of what happening and economic consequences. You point is calming down the talk right? Just trying to understand.
 

BlueFox

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What is to keep this virus from mutating into a higher death rate? Or mutating into a lower death rate? Which has the better odds of occurring?
 

NorthStar

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I think the world doesn't want a remake of the Spanish flu from 100 years ago.
Selling high and buying low on the stock market is a better alternative than being dead.

Just statistically speaking; look @ the number of dead people yesterday (February 23rd), and again ten days from it (March 4th). Also look @ the numbers on the international markets yesterday, and again ten days from it.

Listening to music from an ultra high end audio system is no fun when dead.
So it's better to be prepared by limiting people coming in and out of your listening room right now...figure of speech.
 

jeff1225

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I studiously avoided allowing anybody to post links from questionable sites. I took flak from Bob for doing so, when I deleted some links he posted, significantly so you would not be triggered to respond to those links.

But you are allowing yourself to be triggered, even without those links you find offensive being posted, so I cannot win.

No one is talking about conspiracy sites but you. Please stop. Thank you.
Just commenting to a WBF member saying he's gone to all cash because the economy's going to collapse when the flu kills us all.

Nothing to see here.
 
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the sound of Tao

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Jul 18, 2014
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Not a collapse but a world wide econ recession if this thing break free. Many countries are already in recession. This will further wound. Asian stock market is reacting. Come to any countries in South East Asia right now you will find air ports empty. Hotel occupancy is less than 15. Department stores are quietly spooky. Thai Tourism Authority just announced that the number of people coming into Thailand is reduced 90%. Even the Thais themself go out much less. How many has this virus in Thailand? Only around 40. Half already virus free and gone home. Much better contained than so many countries. The point now is not how many are dead comparing to other causes of death. Economically, The biggest effect of this virus is it hesitate people from moving freely. When people don't move or travel freely, it slow down consumption. And measures to control this virus from spreading stop or to the least extent hesitate people from going places. Now look at protective measures each govt put up when people going into country. They sure hesitate people from traveling. This virus creates "fear". Fear because there is no vaccine because it is easily spread and infected. Fear restricts mobility. Fear slowdown everything economically. Hope they find a cure to end this soon.
Whether this thing pans out as just a storm in the viral tea cup and has the efficacy little more of the y2k virus or it’s an extinction event we 100% have to take this threat as very real. It already has had significant global social and economic impact and whether it is complete inflation or absolute underestimation is at this point unimportant, people are dying and every death is important whether it is 2% mortality or this now becomes the unstoppable mad great plague going forwards.

I watched a program on it last night and the suffering and the mismanagement were both so very real. People dying in the streets and the masses unable to help their family and loved ones. No sense of salvation or hope and little sense of compassion. People being dragged off the streets and out of their homes, whole families being herded like cattle into isolation and people being left in hospital corridors to die alone. Doors on apartment blocks being welded shut and people left to their fates. The complete panic of the health workers battling an impossible unknown tide and a whole province of China being left seemingly to their own fate. And this is only the first very few weeks of a possible global pandemic which has escalated beyond estimation. I hope we are panicking over nothing. But perhaps we should just take time to understand the incomprehensible fear, pain and grief for all those now suffering and for those yet still to be lost and for all the grieving families and for all living in the fear of perhaps an impossible tide of ongoing loss.
 
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analogsa

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Apr 15, 2017
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Doors on apartment blocks being welded shut and people left to their fates.

Yet, it seems to have worked and we should all be thankful. A less decisive and forceful response would have resulted a much higher contagion and death count. It leads to some interesting speculations: what if the epicenter of the epidemic was within some truly liberal society?
 

the sound of Tao

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Yet, it seems to have worked and we should all be thankful. A less decisive and forceful response would have resulted a much higher contagion and death count. It leads to some interesting speculations: what if the epicenter of the epidemic was within some truly liberal society?
It is possible to respond decisively without lacking compassion. Those first weeks apparently spent covering over rather than responding immediately might be more of an issue on reflection. Either way it is far too early to say that anything has worked yet.

I wonder if you were one of the infected or locked into a building with others that were whether you’d be endorsing this all quite so positively? It’s easy to be on the other side of the barrier and remain unaffected but the actions I saw on the news were plainly horrific and quite inhuman. We can be better than this.
 
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Ron Resnick

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morricab

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Unfortunately, in this kind of crisis, strong central command and control is vital to react rapidly to something that is potentially exponential in growth. It means that Western style liberal democracies will be slow to react due to being loathe to trample on individual freedoms...normally a good thing but in this scenario potentially a very bad thing. What this means is that autocratic societies have the potential to come out better. Of course if they are very corrupt (likely) then they will be more inclined to have a coverup at the local levels to not bring blame down upon themselves, in which case the situation again can spiral quickly out of control.

Russia has moved quickly to ban Chinese (and probably other Asians by now) and closed the border with China long before it really took off. If the crisis had originated in Russia who knows how they would have behaved.
 
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the sound of Tao

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Whom do you mean here by "we"? We as in mankind? Or we (they) as in authoritarian dictatorships?
It was more a summative comment so the we is as in we all have the capacity to be better. I feel we (as a species) are beginning to travel on the boundary of several tipping points in a range of global cycles. In many ways we all are being tested by current circumstances and in this in our actions and our sum response may be an indicator also as to our outcome. I believe all the challenges ahead really require everyone largely to work together as a species to overcome. So it was more an affirmation I suppose Ron. I do have great faith that if we can find the internal compass to navigate and pull through the next 50 to 100 years of challenge we can become much greater as a species.
 

the sound of Tao

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Jul 18, 2014
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Unfortunately, in this kind of crisis, strong central command and control is vital to react rapidly to something that is potentially exponential in growth. It means that Western style liberal democracies will be slow to react due to being loathe to trample on individual freedoms...normally a good thing but in this scenario potentially a very bad thing. What this means is that autocratic societies have the potential to come out better. Of course if they are very corrupt (likely) then they will be more inclined to have a coverup at the local levels to not bring blame down upon themselves, in which case the situation again can spiral quickly out of control.

Russia has moved quickly to ban Chinese (and probably other Asians by now) and closed the border with China long before it really took off. If the crisis had originated in Russia who knows how they would have behaved.
I do figure this is the struggle for us. It’s a fine line we travel between the need for severity and the need for compassion. These are two of the balancing pillars in civilisation.

But how we treat the vulnerable becomes (for me) one of the great measures of any civilisation including mankind.

The clue to solution may be in how we have always identified ourselves... as mankind rather than mancruel.
 
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jeff1225

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Unfortunately, in this kind of crisis, strong central command and control is vital to react rapidly to something that is potentially exponential in growth. It means that Western style liberal democracies will be slow to react due to being loathe to trample on individual freedoms...normally a good thing but in this scenario potentially a very bad thing. What this means is that autocratic societies have the potential to come out better. Of course if they are very corrupt (likely) then they will be more inclined to have a coverup at the local levels to not bring blame down upon themselves, in which case the situation again can spiral quickly out of control.

Russia has moved quickly to ban Chinese (and probably other Asians by now) and closed the border with China long before it really took off. If the crisis had originated in Russia who knows how they would have behaved.
The totalitarian governments are the most corrupt on the planet, have no free press and use their military first to solve all of their issues.

They will be and have always been the worst at solving these types of crisis's. They will fare the worst.
 

NorthStar

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I'm going to play safe:
The latest news on the Coronavirus wasn't good news for the stock market today.

"Stocks went out near the session lows, with the Dow ending the day down by 1,031 points (down 3.56%)."

Tomorrow, a rally, a continued down spiral? Check the international markets to get an idea.
My best guess, not a rosy day in perspective.

That was an easy prediction ...
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/25/investing/dow-jones-stock-market/index.html

Most of you have probably seen this one ...
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51628484
 

spiritofmusic

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So, now we're shutting down our schools in the UK. After a handful of cases.

Let's all self-isolate right into recession and mass fear-mongering.
 
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Gregadd

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Far less lethal than made causes.
 
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