Crossover Points and Augmented Wideband Driver Speakers
- Thread starter Cellcbern
- Start date
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All those so called advantages and aiming for a driver who can do it all , nobody mentions the negatives imo.
With a 4 inch driver Starting from 400 or 500 Hz there are also disadvantages , i prefer to use a bigger driver to reproduce those low mid. Freq because IT. Gives more body /membrane surface to the sound .
See there is a big diffence if 1 of my 11 inch woofers is producing 400 Hz OR a Tiny 4 inch mid.
That can surely produce a thin sound
This is actually an area where i wanna experiment further with in a future model .
If there ever Will be , either using a 5 OR 4 inch driver and cross higher, OR using a large ribbon tw that can be crossed at 1200 Hz or so , which is lower then i use now
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You've got some good ideas, that may work out.
But
IMHO
The 2 newest high tech wide bands
DavidLouis VX8 (= DLVX* future reference) and Tangband2145 (TB2145) both offer a beautiful intergration of solid bass, clean clear mids, highs to at least 12khz. do it all.
For bass assit I prefer magnesium midwoofer cones and tweeters for adding sheen on highs, I am thinking the DavidLouis Be/neo dymium magnet tweeter.
A 6 inch WDer will not work for me. I need the bass from a 8 which go at least to 40hz, if not 35ish.
I am usinga Jasun paper cone double magnet tweeter , thing is has beautiful high sens at 91db.
The DavidLouis Beryllium neo dymium has a 92db sens.
Is this a real spec, or fudged??
We will find out.
Right now I could not be happier with my DLVX8/Seas W`18E001 magnesium and Kasun paper tweeter.
Here is the TB2145 along with DLVX8 both in action.
You can make your own call.
Both render fq's extremely close.
In a blind test you;'d have to guess which is which.
bache
Member
Just upgrade my commercial design with wideband design --refuse and illuminate all crossover , no capacitor , no coil--- straight, wideband get very small minimal chamber, i dont know may be theoretically inter modulation and regular increase , but no phase distortion and working with woofer
and super tweeter - sound dutiable became more pleasurable
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The DavidLouis seller mentioned the chinese audiophile mostly goes wide band as pseaker of choice.
I can understand why this is so.
IMHO its only a matter of time before this idea of employing wide bands as **Front and Center* speaker with any box type speaker as assist mode.
I know this is a unique web site for the best of the best, which is really not a DIY friendly site.
But if we are after the best high fidelity, maybe some considertion can be allowed for patching together a true high fidelity speaker system.
btw I don't care for these **super wteeters** not ribbons and planars, AMT's and such.
Dome tweets with highest possible sens (true 91db+) works best for me.
For woofers, magnesium cones as best sounding vs paper composite.
Wide bands can't do it all on their own.
We still need the old traditional drivers in supporting roles.
Greg Belman of Bache Audio has perfected the use of wide band drivers (covering most of the frequency range) augmented by a woofer and (super) tweeter - no negatives that I can hear with any of his models. My upgraded Metro 001's are extraordinary - 4" Tang Band bamboo wide band driver covering 500hz - 9,000 hz is superb, as is the legendary, out of production Japanese version of the Fostex FT92-EX2 tweeter.
See:
BACHE Audio - Audiophile High Sensitivity Speakers and Amplifiers | NYC audio store
Located in Brooklyn, New York, Bache Audio manufactures audiophile Hi-End speakers.
bacheaudio.com
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/remaking-my-bache-audio-metro-001s.33280/#post-740243
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4" Tang Band bamboo wide band driver covering 500hz - 9,000 hz is superb,
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Smaller sibling to the TB 2145.
The 2145 as shown in my above video, voices nice deep , punchy bass. Mids very clean, non colored, voices lifelike, separation of instrumentation = super sound stage, zero fatigue,, I expect the 4 incher to voice even more cleaner mids and super highs as well.
I've seen this Fostex tweeter on the used market.
But for me, just about any tweeter witha TRUE sens above 91db. is doable.
We are only employing for added sheen and sparkle. My tech calls this **ambience**.
I know this forum is more about fab speakers from a lab, such as your Bache Audio, and appreciate the mods allowing my posts which are more about DIY wide band builds.
I'm sure your Bache Audio really shines in all fq's and has a life like sound stage which box/xover types can not compete against. The lil 4 incher TB blows away Wilson's multi driver box in the most critical fq;'s, 400hz-9khz.
I'm on limited income and the only way I can approach your Bache Wonder speaker is via DIY projects.
Please upload a video of your Bache Audion in action, percussion and vocals.
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Smaller sibling to the TB 2145.
The 2145 as shown in my above video, voices nice deep , punchy bass. Mids very clean, non colored, voices lifelike, separation of instrumentation = super sound stage, zero fatigue,, I expect the 4 incher to voice even more cleaner mids and super highs as well.
I've seen this Fostex tweeter on the used market.
But for me, just about any tweeter witha TRUE sens above 91db. is doable.
We are only employing for added sheen and sparkle. My tech calls this **ambience**.
I know this forum is more about fab speakers from a lab, such as your Bache Audio, and appreciate the mods allowing my posts which are more about DIY wide band builds.
I'm sure your Bache Audio really shines in all fq's and has a life like sound stage which box/xover types can not compete against. The lil 4 incher TB blows away Wilson's multi driver box in the most critical fq;'s, 400hz-9khz.
I'm on limited income and the only way I can approach your Bache Wonder speaker is via DIY projects.
Please upload a video of your Bache Audion in action, percussion and vocals.
That's great, I totally agree you can get great results with an augmented wideband driver. I use a 4.5" in a LeCleach horn augmented with a 15" woofer and a Fostex tweeter.
If you haven't yet, check out diyaudio.com, lots of great info on all sorts of augmented single/wideband drivers. You can also try searching the site for FAST or Full-range Assisted by Subwoofer Tech or something along those lines.
Like any speaker there are pros and cons... IMO the largest con is the speaker can't quite produce a symphony orchestra quite like a big Wilson. But for pretty much anything else it can be very good, you get a lot better results by keeping the full range driver from having to reproduce bass.
Well-Known Member
There are many paths to nirvana. For me, I have chosen to use a wide-band mid-range, augmented. Once I heard the "tone" of a Tang-Band w8-1772 driver, I knew that I wanted it. However, left on it's own merits, to be used "full-range," left a thin lower mid-range, indeed. I asked myself, why would I utilize a driver in a range where it is uncomfortable (?) I had just acquired a pair of Vintage (1941) Jensen horns, and the throat size was an ideal match for the TB driver. Yes, my target was to keep the essential mid-range intact, without any sort of passive element crossover. I have been sold on 4-way active systems for many years now, so why abandon what works for me ? Hence, this is my full range system. Bass as deep as the room will re-produce, and soaring highs. But, the mid-range is where we live (Paul Klipsch). 250-6K Hz, from one source. WAF not applicable in my domain.
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Stunning speaker set up,
Many paths?
I'm wide bands worlds biggest fan-atic
For me , only wide band/ + assits is the only path to true super high fidelity (SHF) for the 21st C audiophile.
With big expensive horns as the exception to the rule.
Yes the 250hz - say 5k hz is the heart and soul of our music.
Cellos lowest note is 60 hz.
Classical orchestra 's reach into the low 3k''s... we employ the wteeter as emblishment as added sheen and ambience.
THere are many options for a true wide band /assis speaker.
Like the bache Audio mentioned above.
Employs the super TB 4 inch as pure midrange, bass is handled by a dedicated woofer, adds a Fostex super tweeter.
Really nice design, where all fq's have their own dedicated voicing.
I bet that lil 4 inch TB rolls off above 12khz. and hits as low as 80hz!!!!
I'd actually run the 4 incher as wide open, no blocks, The lil DavidLouis 4 incher had a nice puncky kick in the bass.
I'd run the 4 as full range and have the woofer overlap the lows through 400hz.
THe mids were a bit stressed in the davidLouis 4, whereas I am sure the TB 4 delivers super clean midrange. No stress, zero colotaion, zero fatigue.
I want to experiement with the DavidLouis 6 incher,,which seems to be very close construct to my DL VX8.
Just have to make sure the mids are up to same level of fidelity as his VX8.
I'm already running over 3G's in this wide band experiement and am running out of cash.
Lucky for me, i found the VX8 as my ideal wide band speaker.
The DL VX 6 is tempting me to start a 2nd speaker system.
like a big Wilson.
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I've never heard,,, well it was yrs ago I heard a Puppy Watt, OK nothing great,,I know folks who have heard Wilson's and say they have some issues with Wilson's, Wilson's make HUGE MASSIVE sound. But is that what we are after ina speaker??
Dont think so.
I think the best wide banders are 8 inch, not 5, 6, nor 10's. 8's seem to offer the superior midrange,, = is what we are after ina WBer, midrange, nothing else, If we get added bass 40hz-80hz, great news, If we get 10khz-15khz , great news,
If we don't big deal.
WE employ WBers for their incredible, glorious, impeccable, if not perfection, midrange, seamless, musical, and 2nd to onlya big massive expensive horn system.
Tang band 2145 in action.
Ck out the STUNNING highs.
WOWWWWW
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I've never heard,,, well it was yrs ago I heard a Puppy Watt, OK nothing great,,I know folks who have heard Wilson's and say they have some issues with Wilson's, Wilson's make HUGE MASSIVE sound. But is that what we are after ina speaker??
Dont think so.
I think the best wide banders are 8 inch, not 5, 6, nor 10's. 8's seem to offer the superior midrange,, = is what we are after ina WBer, midrange, nothing else, If we get added bass 40hz-80hz, great news, If we get 10khz-15khz , great news,
If we don't big deal.
WE employ WBers for their incredible, glorious, impeccable, if not perfection, midrange, seamless, musical, and 2nd to onlya big massive expensive horn system.
Tang band 2145 in action.
Ck out the STUNNING highs.
WOWWWWW
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