I also like the Vitavox video. Seem to have a lot of potential. Ddk sold a system with Vitavox/ML2 to one of his customer in Thailand too. I went to see once. Unfortunately they were in unplayable condition. I was thinking to have a home system with that combo. I think you should go for a used Lamm. Sound/dollar is to the roof. Much better value than CH. The Lamm is extraordinary when properly matched to the speakers.
David Karmeli's Natural Sound in Utah
- Thread starter PeterA
- Start date
Very nice posts Peter. I read them all, and without a break. Sometimes you're sorta spinning wheels but it's nothing but clarity here.
CH is like the best made car you can imagine except you don't like driving it. Exceptional company, but doesn't hit the mark for actual listening IMO.
Those Vitavox's are neat. I'm pretty sure David's issue is probably the room is just simply the wrong dimensions. Any other sized/shaped room would probably sound fine, this one just happens to be very mode/nodey for that speaker's FR because of it's exact dimensions.
You can buy new Vitavox, no idea how it sounds compared to vintage.
He enjoyed that system for a couple of decades more than everything else he ever owned until he fell ill. Shame his kids couldn't set it up for you to hear. He was a dear friend with a lot of passion for high end and music, lots of good memories from my time in Bangkok and our travels together around the world.
david
Wow!!!
That's what it's all about!
Congrats & thanks to both of you!!!
That's what it's all about!
Congrats & thanks to both of you!!!
All Lamm Tim.
- Small room- LP2.1 DLX, LL1 and ML2
- Large room- LP1, LP2 DLX, LL1.1, ML3, ML2 (subs), ML2 for secondary speakers.
I have the hybrid Lamms to demo too but none of the speakers we were listening to required them.
david
Not really, the horns have wide dispersion so they don't beam like box speakers they tend to fill up the entire width of the room with sound. Seating distance depends on the room, typically 3m+ but you don't need to worry about the sweet spot because they fill up the room with sound. Downside to corner horns is that you need two matching corners and if you have room acoustic issues like I have you can't position them anywhere.
david
One doesn't have to even consider the price paid for the SX 8000 II to sense the value of it all. What an encouraging read.
Btw my best friend, who lives outside Osaka, and I went second hand stereo shopping for him a few years ago. On the cheap. At least in Osaka...all roads led to Diatone 
That's not exactly true. Horns provide a more even distribution and reduce the amount of reflections because they're much more directional. Conventional cones & domes only beam above frequencies smaller than their cone size. But because they reflect and have uneven distribution they tend to have more defined positions that are the "sweet" spot. You're looking for a place to sit where they aren't a mess. Some are better than others at this, and it depends on the frequency etc. But physics are thus that horns non-wide dispersion actually leads to a wider sweet or almost entirely sweet spot. So what you say seems true acoustically, but it isn't what's actually happening.
When it comes to corner speakers I don't see a problem. What's the difference between a speaker that is highly directional horn speakers in the corner or almost in the corner like in Tang's office? If you have a high pressure hose spraying water and it's in the corner or a few feet into the room in any direction, what does it matter? It would only matter if it had a substantial backwards dispersion like cones & domes usually do. In that case you change the acoustics drastically. That would be like having a hose firing water backwards and forwards at the same time. The type of reflection from the front wall from the hose firing in all directions will vary greatly with placement of the hose - boundaries will begin to matter a lot.
The only thing you can "lose" really with corner placement is some 3D effect that you don't get from horns to begin with - in the same way as you do most cone & dome speakers. There's nothing to fear from corner speakers that are intentionally made to play from that position. Unless you don't have corners or you have a room shaped exactly like DDK's which interferes with those exact speakers.
Last edited:
Actually the motors are pretty similar the difference is in the tts themselves. There were different generations of each version too. SX8000 solid platters were of a completely different design and sounded somewhat different from the hollow vacuum versions. SX-8000II has a heavier plinth, different overall design and has higher quality materials in its construction. Sonically one is the evolution of the other, more resolution and more natural sound, AF1 is different from both sonically.
david
Directional yes but they also have wide dispersion, it's a different quality.
My experience with both Vitavox and Hartsfield is that you don't lose the 3D effect it's actually very solid but mostly in front the speakers.
I have corners but my room is acoustically disgusting, every inch of it sounds horrible and even conversation is uncomfortable
! Maybe it's modern construction and/or general dimensions of some rooms but I've come across similar issues in rooms that didn't any obvious acoustic problems.david
Directional yes but they also have wide dispersion, it's a different quality.
My experience with both Vitavox and Hartsfield is that you don't lose the 3D effect it's actually very solid but mostly in front the speakers.
I have corners but my room is acoustically disgusting, every inch of it sounds horrible and even conversation is uncomfortable
david
What are the dimensions of the room?
Hm, I guess I just think dispersion isn't a great term if the other speaker is beaming. These traits are measured pretty easily. Even when a cone & dome measures well it might look messy fast when put in a room - hence why people use gated responses. That makes it sound like I don't like cone & done, which isn't true, I just think that they're challenging sometimes and a lot of them are not good.
I posted the room dimensions somewhere else but I forgot, have to measure it again when it's cleared up. There's more going on besides poor dimensions, the construction has it's own issues too. We have better rooms I could have used for a demo room, I picked this one because it was so challenging to get good sound in, the JBLs sound great in there and prove my point about setup.
Majority of horn speakers suck too! Given the discrepancies in quality in any product category or topology I think it's important to discuss specific products rather than generalizing about the whole.
david
I find that spherical horns tend to beam more than the sectorial or bi-radial horns used in the Vitavox, TAD or Hartsfield. One of the weakest points of my old Avantgarde Uno's IMO.
Similar threads
