David Karmeli's Natural Sound in Utah

Lagonda

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Feb 4, 2014
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David's posts reflect the same "nice, interesting and meticulous fellow" we know in person.
With a strong opinion on certain topics, thank god we are still allowed to have those :)
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Those videos, particularly the Beethoven with which I am somewhat more familiar, are SPECTACULAR. You could substitute live musicians pretending to perform, and I would never have guessed it was playback. Wow...that certainly coincides with my gut instinct about the quality and absolute level of discernment DDK has successfully pursued with his system.

And of course, the question now becomes...how does one get that...without having to dedicate such an enormous part of a living room to the speakers and equipment? ;) I think those Bionors are amazing...but just way too big of a spacial commitment to make.

Would love to know what DDK thinks is more in keeping with big Wilson/more traditional (but still large) spacial requirements and still along the tremendous vein of sound quality he has created.
 
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rbbert

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Dec 12, 2010
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David's posts reflect the same "nice, interesting and meticulous fellow" we know in person.
Not exactly; I think your sampling is not wide enough ;)
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
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Those videos, particularly the Beethoven with which I am somewhat more familiar, are SPECTACULAR. You could substitute live musicians pretending to perform, and I would never have guessed it was playback. Wow...that certainly coincides with my gut instinct about the quality and absolute level of discernment DDK has successfully pursued with his system.

And of course, the question now becomes...how does one get that...without having to dedicate such an enormous part of a living room to the speakers and equipment? ;) I think those Bionors are amazing...but just way too big of a spacial commitment to make.

Would love to know what DDK thinks is more in keeping with big Wilson/more traditional (but still large) spacial requirements and still along the tremendous vein of sound quality he has created.
Hi Lloyd,
Both questions are indirectly answered in Peter's write up. The JBL M9500 is one of the best modern horn speakers made which is still available on the used market and you can drive it with low powered tube amps and solid state electronics, similar to your X1. You'll get the best qualities of a high end horn and the character of modern speakers in one package. A vintage horn has some unique character that you won't get from any modern speaker even the best of them. They're married to low powered tube amplifiers and create their own musical experience. That was the contrast between the Vitavox and JBL M9500's in the same room with the same gear. @PeterA can expand on this better than me. There aren't many but there are still a good number of vintage speakers for you to search out in the UK and hear it for yourself.

david
 
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LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Hi Lloyd,
Both questions are indirectly answered in Peter's write up. The JBL M9500 is one of the best modern horn speakers made which is still available on the used market and you can drive it with low powered tube amps and solid state electronics, similar to your X1. You'll get the best qualities of a high end horn and the character of modern speakers in one package. A vintage horn has some unique character that you won't get from any modern speaker even the best of them. They're married to low powered tube amplifiers and create their own musical experience. That was the contrast between the Vitavox and JBL M9500's in the same room with the same gear. @PeterA can expand on this better than me. There aren't many but there are still a good number of vintage speakers for you to search out in the UK and hear it for yourself.

david
Hi David,

Thank you! That is great to hear. BTW, I had a very unique opportunity to trade in my X1s for an XLF (previously owned apparently by Karen Sumner of Transparent Audio) which Wilson re-worked and re-painted anew with 5 year warranty...so that is me done for some time. But I have to say if/when I ever move forward from the mighty XLFs (which are still not calibrated to the room but are already sounding fantastic)...I absolutely will investigate horns very thoroughly before making any decisions.
 

rando

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Sep 22, 2019
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I look back at the various components I’ve owned and I am now convinced that there were many I did not hear optimized because I did not prioritize the importance of set up.

Nothing else here bore need for a second comment so much as flash of sensitivity in letter from your Mother assuring you had closed the wide open shutter at home, "I come to believe what makes us more human is music."

You drove yourself towards acts of industry throughout entire visit with DDK. What ends are you pursuing currently?


P.S. You erred robbing opportunity to fill in one "reservation" annually over the next four years. ;)
 

PeterA

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Dec 7, 2011
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Nothing else here bore need for a second comment so much as flash of sensitivity in letter from your Mother assuring you had closed the wide open shutter at home, "I come to believe what makes us more human is music."

You drove yourself towards acts of industry throughout entire visit with DDK. What ends are you pursuing currently?


P.S. You erred robbing opportunity to fill in one "reservation" annually over the next four years. ;)

i’m having a little trouble understanding your post, but right now I’m just waiting for my new turntable to arrive so I can set up the new tonearms and see how the sound from my system is changed. From there I will start thinking about what comes next. Time will tell.
 
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rando

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Sep 22, 2019
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Hmm, your effort to capture as much as humanly possible during your trip required taking in even peripheral elements with equal focus. Apparently I was not the only one who noticed your report firmly held clarity in its grasp. I selected friendly quote closing your Mother's letter for the pleasant effect of drawing conclusion to intensity of focus it had on your initial series of posts. This was not present last I revisited some part within.

Your personal system thread would've been the natural place to expand upon actual work being done. Would you like to share more collective insights, fruits of your labor, recently gathered by yourself or through others, falls closer to the ground you've prepared here. Furthermore, idea appendages might've been left to further develop over time was a provocation aiming to unburden you of very immediate secondary thoughts 'flashed' upon while decompressing. Which makes any response feel less organic after spelling this out.

Enjoy your Sunday afternoon. If a bucket thrown down the well you dipped into to write all this should come back wet again. Hold it high.
 

christoph

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Dec 12, 2015
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I think those Bionors are amazing...but just way too big of a spacial commitment to make.
What are the dimensions of David's Bionors?
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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What are the dimensions of David's Bionors?
If this is the correct model:
Model: Bionor KL-L433 - Klangfilm GmbH
ShapeMiscellaneous shapes - described under notes.
Dimensions (WHD)2500 x 1850 x 1000 mm / 98.4 x 72.8 x 39.4 inch
 
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DasguteOhr

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Sep 26, 2013
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Thank you Peter,

for the wonderful travel report.
For people who are interested in Klangfilm speakers, they are all listed here.
A Friend have a Beautiful Pair of Eckmiller O 15 Fieldcoil Speaker,
I've been trying to convince him to sell me the speakers for 10 years
no success:(

 

PeterA

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Dec 7, 2011
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One doesn't have to even consider the price paid for the SX 8000 II to sense the value of it all. What an encouraging read.

This is a wonderful post, Soypsa. Is sums it all up. A good music friend and I were talking the other day. I told him about my latest thoughts about audio, the new turntable, and the visit to Utah and what I have learned since then.

He told me that I reminded him of a well-known saying: “When one is ready to learn, the teacher presents himself.“. So true

Btw my best friend, who lives outside Osaka, and I went second hand stereo shopping for him a few years ago. On the cheap. At least in Osaka...all roads led to Diatone :)

I can think of few nicer combinations than a pair of Dinatone speakers well positioned in a house designed by Tadao Ando. He was too once my teacher.
 

Solypsa

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Jun 7, 2017
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I can think of few nicer combinations than a pair of Dinatone speakers well positioned in a house designed by Tadao Ando. He was too once my teacher.
I might give up vinyl to live in an Ando home. Thats saying a lot :)
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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What home is that second picture from?
 

tima

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howiebrou

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