Ok you guys. I guess on WBF it makes no difference what the topic is, and I accept this. It's fine with me. I'm new and don't make the rules. As far as my roller skating is concerned, there's a lot of music with roller skating and it gives some insight into what makes me tick. Whenever a person makes comments unless they are totally bland, they are subject to criticism. I accept this too. I'm a retired ER physician of 34 years. I was chief of a large ER for 22 of those years and medical examiner of Sumner County TN from about 1987 to 2002--15 years. I live alone in a very large house. I took up roller skating because I had to find something to do after the loss of my wife on Feb 4th 2021. It is amazing how much talent I have for the sport, and I love the sound of my system. I'm quite happy and I mostly stay this way. I'm extremely healthy and will probably live to well over a hundred in good health. I won't make any more criticisms of being off topic. It's good to know the rules and I will try to abide by them. I stay busy all the time. I love the high end and enjoy everybody's' systems. So now that I know it's ok to talk about Wilsons regardless of the main topic, if the subject arises again, I might have a comment. I've owned a lot of Wilsons.
dCS Varese short review
- Thread starter craigr
- Start date
It’s not mine. I am enthusiastic about the sound quality. Not sure the MOC always offers ideal listening conditions.
Whoa. That’s a bit harsh. I read Charles comments on audio and skating as just pure enthusiasm.
Well, just because you write it the in a larger font does not change anything. Please read the OP from poster rangda that initiated the discussion. What was being addressed was the just the spikes and speakers hardware.
And sorry, nice to know we disagree, but my opinions about high end subjects come from what I learn mainly from direct sources, not from those who know it all tell me others think about the subject.
Elliot G.
Industry Expert
and my opinions come from actually doing the work and the set ups over 50 years . I was addressing comments from those saying that set up was easy and you just follow the charts which may help but if can't place the speaker properly the charts wont help. There is no substitute for experience and knowing what to listen for and I didn't insult you so I don't understand yours.
You should be. I was listening to the dCS Varese yesterday again. Unfortunately the Studer A80's are extremely heavy, it is a few hundred kilometers from me and stairs are involved. Otherwise I would record a few tapes on it ...
Well, I would have never bought the Vivaldi (or most of my equipment, BTW) based on what I listen in shows. Shows are marketing activity mainly for sight and socialization. They should impress and attract audiophiles to good shops, where we can listen in good conditions.
Ok, I respect it. But a lot changed along 30 years in Wilson set up. Older speakers were much more critical and hard to set than the current ones.
My first Wilsons were Watt Puppy V's.
Lee was specifically addressing the speaker hardware, not the positioning.
Surely. I did the same. I just expressed my opinion.
Elliot G.
Industry Expert
I agree Elliot. The “zone of neutrality” commonly used is too large to be considered optimal in all cases. Within it there is an opportunity to prioritize certain aspects of sound. Peter, from my experience, prioritizes a large soundstage over precision. That is not what I personally prefer so some of this my is listening preference. There are no set up instructions in existence if followed to the tee that will result in optimal speaker placement in every given room and with every listening preference. They are a starting point not an ending point. My guess is that fewer than 5% of listeners have ever really heard what their speakers are truly capable of. I admit that my belief is based upon my own preferences and that lots of owners may be happy with the sound they are getting. I’m not trying to be difficult or a know it all. My internet is only to support Elliot’s viewpoint which I share and to maybe get some others to be open to it in the pursuit of excellent sound.
We will be happy to disagree on this one - you manage to ignore the real post content in your answers.
Elliot G.
Industry Expert
no I did not you just cant accept that people don't agree with you. Your statement about he age of speakers versus set up is just wrong. Perhaps you should have said that older Wilson speakers were not as good as todays and therefore they never would sound as good as todays versions. That I would agree with however the set up procedure is not different when placing the box.
FYI as far as Wilsons are concerned I have been setting them up from very early WP to current day just never have I done XVX or larger. They all start set up the same way.
No, I easily accept disagreement, particularly in subjective matters, such as speaker positioning.
I say that old Wilson's such as the Watt3, 5, Maxx and X2 were harder and more critical to set than the Alexia or the XLF. The process is the same, but the process converges much easier with more recent speakers, as speakers have better resonance control, better dispersion and less artefacts. Surely just IMO - although I have also found it in reviews.
It is an hobby of preference and we do not have statistics on it. Probably no two experts will set speakers in the same way, even using the same method - it is the reality of stereo, particularly in the high-end.
When I owned the XLF I assembled two low friction XY rail systems to move them in my room easily and fast inside the zone of neutrality. For a few weeks I played with position, two friends were good victims
, than removed them and settled the position with the spikes, just re-adjusting toe-in. Never again I touched it. Could the position be improved after I got a better inside knowledge of their performance ? Probably yes, but I did not care to do it.That’s fair.It is an hobby of preference and we do not have statistics on it. Probably no two experts will set speakers in the same way, even using the same method - it is the reality of stereo, particularly in the high-end.
When I owned the XLF I assembled two low friction XY rail systems to move them in my room easily and fast inside the zone of neutrality. For a few weeks I played with position, two friends were good victims
I think the tone on WBF is often disproportionate to the topic. That said IMHO optimizing speaker placement is more important than any buying decision between well made speaker brands like Magico Wilson or Rockport which tends to bring out the “tone” you refer to. As such I think it merits more discussion than what brand is “best”. Just my opinion based upon my personal experience which might be different than yours. I don’t make a living in audio but I wouldn’t buy speakers from someone who wasn’t an expert at placement unless I was going to hire Stirling to do it.
Any reason to no refer to Jim Smith? Probably because I read his book, I find more empathy towards Jim Smith than Stirling Trayle methods.
Yes. i've seen some ofJims work. I take a look and say "Jim did this" and they said "how did you know" They use completely different methodology. Stirling uses what was called the Sumiko method where they were originally trying to optimize the bass of bookshelf speakers. This eventually led to "locking" in one speaker with the other disconnected. A single speaker is positioned so that it is optimized to the room. The whole emphasis is to remove the room (as much as possible) from the equation. It is precise to the millimeter. The six inches or so in the zone of neutrality might as well be a football field in terms of optimization. The other speaker speaker is then placed. There are some who have gone beyond this to include plumb lines to insure proper placement. The level is shot to insure the tweeters are at exactly the same height (floors aren't perfect). Always use spikes (even in hardwood) and tape the threads ( zero movement). There is a lot more to it. 3 professionals might take 2 full days to nail it. Stirling is just an example of this basic method. There are others out there. Its worth it. Its transformational. Just my opinion in answering your question.
Who are you, Stereophonic?
I’ve noticed you frequently join dCS threads just to claim—without evidence—that dCS is struggling. You insist you don’t work for Wadax, so what’s your agenda?
Unlike you, we dCS users aren’t attacking Wadax with false claims. Just give it up. We’re happy that you love your Wadax, and believe me, we’re just as happy with our dCS. Thanks.
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