dCS Varese short review

[robob]

Please keep in mind that the TRPTK files sound in their native recording rates (many of them in 32 bit dxd) -even - more glorious than in the 24/176.4 version you apparently listened to.

I can understand that might be true. I will try to remember to listen on the HiFi as none of my pro equipment does DXD.

Thanks,
Robert

 

[robob]

i think we need more time to judge whether Fremer evolves away from being free to be critical or not on Absolute Sound. obviously his footprint there is lower; he is not doing a monthly column any more so has less content and opportunity. but i personally doubt he will change his spots and don't think he gives a rip what others might think. we will just have to see how it goes.

I disagree. His attitude has changed. It started even before he left Stereophile. Another case in point is the erector set/machine shop special turntable he is now using.

He can not care about what others think, and I support that, but he still could be compromised or otherwise of a mindset of which I disagree.

Y'all take care,
Robert

 

[JiminGa]

Jim, I am total agreement with you. I don't think its the method I still believe its the person executing the set up.
I do believe however that it is a great leaning experience for the owners and at worse is a great place to start and to understand how things work and change.

Exactly. The approach does matter but it's the execution of it which determines the outcome. VERY few dealers have the inclination to have a couple of their guys tied up for a couple of days to really nail the dial. What's in it for them? The client won't notice a difference if they don't know the alternative. Even if the dealer is inclined to do so how many of them have the people with the skills to do so? It isn't going to be about just measurements. Its going to involve real listening skill and a ton of experience. What would we be down to now? Maybe a half dozen dealers? That's why I'm comfortable buying certain things (cables etc) on a best price basis but never speakers or turntables. The dealer adds too much value. The alternative would be to hire an expert to position them for you. I've been at this a long time and I can tell you I am not qualified to do this myself. Even some of the "expert" set up guys are not really qualified IMHO. I know this is controversial but I would much rather have an average speaker expertly set up than the best speaker in the world in an average set up. Speaking only for myself that is why I roll my eyes when I hear all the M7, XVX talk and know that without a shadow of a doubt they are wasting money. Not because they aren't great speakers but because the owners will hear maybe 75% of what they are capable of and never even know it. We spend whole threads on fuses and switches and exotic cables. These will make small subtle (relatively) differences. Placement is transformative. The system as a whole, synergistic, integrated unit is transformative. The reason the tweets dominate discussion is because they are easy. System synergy and set up is hard to do and harder to find. Just my opinion. Not fighting

 

[microstrip]

(...) as examples I’ve heard 2 XVX set ups by Peter which were then setup in the method I describe and each were different by about 4 inches. In both cases I personally prefer the “Sumiko” methodology. I’m only speaking for myself and not proclaiming superiority of it for everyone in all cases. It’s just another example of how important placement is in getting the sound you personally prefer. People may love how their system sounds but they wouldn’t know what they are leaving on the table without someone showing them in their room on their system

I remember reading great articles in TAS with round tables with speaker and amplifier designers. They debated their objectives and we could learn a lot about their priorities. It would be great to have a similar debate with optimizations experts.

(...) I know this is controversial but I would much rather have an average speaker expertly set up than the best speaker in the world in an average set up. (...)

Well, I find it controversial, although I do not know on what is exactly meant by average in both situations.

We all known that poorly placed speakers ruin the sound quality of a system. But if we must consider that a 2 mm speaker displacement makes sound go from excellent to average I disagree with such statement.

I enjoy reading about the exhaustive work of Stirling Traile - fortunately there are many accessible articles around about it. I only regret that I was not able to find his direct opinion about sweet spot and other fundamental aspects of stereo soundstage.

(...) Just my opinion. Not fighting

The same!

 

[vindixon]

Hi Robob,

Michael Fremer currently has a Wilson Benesch GMT One System Turntable, which replaced his OMA K3. I’ve heard both at his place. I wouldn’t describe the Wilson Benesch as an “erector set/machine shop special” turntable.

Best,

Vincent

 

[robob]

Hi Robob,

Michael Fremer currently has a Wilson Benesch GMT One System Turntable, which replaced his OMA K3. I’ve heard both at his place. I wouldn’t describe the Wilson Benesch as an “erector set/machine shop special” turntable.

Best,

Vincent

I was referring to the OMA K3. I did not realize or remember he switched to the Wilson Benesch. Thanks for that;-)

 

[JiminGa]

I remember reading great articles in TAS with round tables with speaker and amplifier designers. They debated their objectives and we could learn a lot about their priorities. It would be great to have a similar debate with optimizations experts.



Well, I find it controversial, although I do not know on what is exactly meant by average in both situations.

We all known that poorly placed speakers ruin the sound quality of a system. But if we must consider that a 2 mm speaker displacement makes sound go from excellent to average I disagree with such statement.

I enjoy reading about the exhaustive work of Stirling Traile - fortunately there are many accessible articles around about it. I only regret that I was not able to find his direct opinion about sweet spot and other fundamental aspects of stereo soundstage.



The same!

Fair. By “average” in this context I mean a top brands middle speaker vs their flagship, Definitely “ luxury” by any sane humans viewpoint.

 

[thedudeabides]

Have the cable companies (transparent, nordost, etc.,) stepped up to make some after market cables for the Varese yet?

How many customers for this product to make it worthwile to the cable company? I would think not.

 

[thedudeabides]

My guess is that fewer than 5% of listeners have ever really heard what their speakers are truly capable of.

Out of curiosity, what's the basis for your "guess"?

 

[JiminGa]

Out of curiosity, what's the basis for your "guess"?

The basis is going and listening at dealers and private systems and comparing them to excellent setups.

 

[thedudeabides]

I think every audiophile should ask Stirling Trayle for speaker setup

Absent travel time and other ancillary expenses (food, lodging, etc.), is there an "average" or typical time range (number of days?) spent at a client's house for a speaker setup? And what is the cost? Do they do anything else to optimize sound other than speaker setup?

 

[thedudeabides]

I started reading it when there was no advertising. Some have said that now you don't get reviewed if you don't advertise.

Any definitive proof or just rumor? I still subscribe and I recall reading product reviewed for which I don't recall any corresponding adverts. Cartridge alignment systems come to mind.

 

[thedudeabides]

The basis is going and listening at dealers and private systems and comparing them to excellent setups.

Thanks. You must listen to an enormous number of systems. Lucky you.

 

[JiminGa]

Absent travel time and other ancillary expenses (food, lodging, etc.), is there an "average" or typical time range spent at a client's house for a speaker setup? And what is the cost? Do they do anything else to optimize sound other than speaker se

Thanks. You must listen to an enormous number of systems. Lucky you.

I think you may have chosen the wrong moniker. “ the dude” might be a little unusual but he was kind. You intended to slightly me. Very un dude like

 

[thedudeabides]

Wrong. Not meant as an insult. Jealous that you have the opportunity to hear a wide range of systems. I can't have one anymore. Had a house big enough but it burnt down last July. Live in a much smaller place now. No room for a dedicated two channel system for the first time in some 45 years. Personally would love to have that opportunity. I really miss having a good audio system. Not everyone is out to get you. Enjoy your anger or whatever that reaction is. Bye.

 

[robob]

Any definitive proof or just rumor? I still subscribe and I recall reading product reviewed for which I don't recall any corresponding adverts. Cartridge alignment systems come to mind.

No definitive proof, hence the words, "Some have said". I still subscribe as well, although I am considering dropping it.

Take care,
Robert

 

[Amir]

As far as I know he is a paid consultant and system optimizer, he does not come on "invitation" ...

Yes, me and my clients will pay for Stirling Trayle art of speaker placement.
Stirling Trayle is hugly game changer

 

[Amir]

Absent travel time and other ancillary expenses (food, lodging, etc.), is there an "average" or typical time range (number of days?) spent at a client's house for a speaker setup? And what is the cost? Do they do anything else to optimize sound other than speaker setup?

You can ask these questions from Styrling Trayle.

Audio Systems Optimized | Stereo Set Up Service | California Petaluma United States

Audio Systems Optimized provides home audio system set-up and optimization services, specializing in high-end turntable and loudspeaker setup.

www.audiosystemsoptimized.com

 

[Dunc69]

I went to the UK dealer, Hi-Fi Lounge (Nr Biggleswade, Bedfordshire) on Wednesday. The owner, Paul was really excellent. He showed my brother and me round the whole place, which is a really great environment. I went to listen to a 3 box Vivaldi with a view to upgrading from my Rossini Apex. Unfortunately, we didn't feel the improvements were enough to purchase the Vivaldi. I think this came as a bit of a surprise to Paul, but my brother and I heard the same things.

On to the topic of this thread Paul has a "reference" system, which includes the dCS Varese. He let my brother and I use the room to listen some music of our choice. He left us alone, and we just played some of our favourite tracks for about 45 minutes. The system was wonderful, and we both really appreciated Paul's hospitality. I was very pleased to be able to listen to the Varese, even though (or even especially though) it is out of my reach. I don't know how it compares to other "top end" DACs and streamers. but I can imagine that it would be purely a matter of personal taste.

The Hi-Lounge is definitely worth a visit. We both had a great time there.

Hi Mark

It's Dunc the guy that tried to help you Wednesday get the best from both set ups.
I must say I am not surprised with your out come, I say this for a few reasons.
As I pointed out on Wednesday, you began listening with the vivaldi set to just 44.1 and the rossini was on DXD, also the vivaldi was on map 3, this wasn't a great way to start.
Obviously I set them both up to what i believe is there best set up, and left you to it.

The other thing i would have definitely done if it was me doing the demo. I would have removed the pre amp from the demo. It wasn't needed on Wednesday apart from making the switch over easier.
The reason I say this is because I am not sure on the pre amp used and this could have been holding back you hearing the differences easier.

But it does go to show you need to do these demo's 100% and make sure you are giving the best reflection of what each can do. Having owned both the rossini player for a few years and now the vivaldi. I certainly know the differences, plus I also know all to well you can hamper the vivaldi when using a pre amp if it's not a certain quality.

But good luck on your search, as you already have a top dac in the dCS rossini and really the honest truth is most other dac's are only going to give you slight inpovements or a different flavour.

Cheers dunc

 

[caesar]

How many customers for this product to make it worthwile to the cable company? I would think not.

I respectfully disagree. The current dcs Vivaldi stack takes something like 15-17 cables. It was / is considered the BEST by dcs people and fans; they ignore the presence of wadax in the market.

Those people did not use cheap cables for their IMAGINED BEST! Cable manufacturers like Transparent and respective dealers benefited greatly!

So why not replicate the cash cow?