dCS Varese short review

[Elliot G.]

Hello Elliot,

Respectfully, you read a lot into what I wrote. I meant only that I don't hear differences between those price levels that are valuable to me.

Of course listening at a show and making quality decisions is absurd.

I don't know what any of your other comments has to do with what I wrote.

OK Ron, I did not understand your point and thank you for clarifying. The pricing point however was misleading since the items are not capable of the same things I.e. a CD/SACD transport etc. dramatically changes the pricing as I pointed out.

 

[bonzo75]

The partisanship and defensiveness on DACs appears to me subjectively to be more extreme than the partnership on other components. I wonder why this is?

I just thought of a hypothesis: maybe the subjective sonic differences between DACs are smaller and more difficult to discern than are the subjective sonic differences between other types of components, and so people feel more emotionally compelled to defend their expensive choice?

Yes cannot discern the difference in digital much and it is usually bad which is why the DHTed Lampis stand out. With analog while differences can be made out a lot of analog is good, so one can focus on records. It is a similar thing between SS amps and low watt SETs and push pull amps.

 

[JiminGa]

Who cares if Ron doesn't see the value in paying $$$ ( fill in your preferred number) on Wadax? It's his personal opinion. I see no evidence whatsoever that he has some kind of hidden agenda other than he generally isn't a digital guy. If Ron voicing his opinion makes you feel foolish for having yours then maybe re evaluate things. If it doesn't then respectfully disagree with him and move on.

 

[Audiocrack]

Who cares if Ron doesn't see the value in paying $$$ ( fill in your preferred number) on Wadax? It's his personal opinion. I see no evidence whatsoever that he has some kind of hidden agenda other than he generally isn't a digital guy. If Ron voicing his opinion makes you feel foolish for having yours then maybe re evaluate things. If it doesn't then respectfully disagree with him and move on.

Sorry but this is just a stupid reaction. Nobody is claiming (in any case not me) that Ron has some kind of hidden agenda.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike, I honestly have no idea what point you think I'm trying to make other than the bare words of what I said. Brandon Lauer, unless I misheard him sitting right next to me, I believe told me that the total MSRP of all the Wadax components in the M9 room was $600,000.

What offense do you think I have committed here by repeating exactly what Brandon told me in person?


What did I write that is inconsistent with this?

you are not an amateur. you are a dealer and reviewer and blogger. when you don't reasonably inform the reader but throw out a big number, that is your choice. but then wear your flack jacket and take the shots. in your video's you ask all the tough questions. why not here?

the Wadax Reference series has 5 levels. starting at the Level One dac only. adding the server only to Level Two it's the mid $200k range. if you are quoting the raw $600k verbal number to make your point, then disclose the details compared to other levels.

The Wadax set-up in the M9 room MSRPs for $600,000. I don't hear a big difference between $100,000 digital and $350,000 digital and $600,000 digital. My personal favorite digital stuff is Horizon plus Olympus, for a total of $150,000 or so, a fraction of dCS and Wadax.

the Olympus plus Horizon 360 at $150k does not include a transport. if you shoot from the hip that is a misleading compare intentional or not. why not say that you can then get Level 2 Wadax for $250k compared to the others? i know, it takes a little work and investigation.

the point of your post was to make as much as possible from the price differences. which then puts the onus on you to get it right.

I would much rather spend the next hundred thousand dollars on a tape machine -- on which I do hear a big difference.

a tape machine cannot be listened to 24/7/365 with new content constantly. it's a product for a different occasional use case. the media issue is huge for tape.

 

[Elliot G.]

Yes cannot discern the difference in digital much and it is usually bad which i

Says you. If you believe this then why even participate on a digital thread?

 

[Elliot G.]

Who cares if Ron doesn't see the value in paying $$$ ( fill in your preferred number) on Wadax? It's his personal opinion. I see no evidence whatsoever that he has some kind of hidden agenda other than he generally isn't a digital guy. If Ron voicing his opinion makes you feel foolish for having yours then maybe re evaluate things. If it doesn't then respectfully disagree with him and move on.

I don't believe Jim he has an agenda either however as a reporter/reviewer it is important to get the basic facts correct. Lets at least try to do that and speak apples to apples.
If the price matters , which it always does, even when people say it doesn't, then lets get it right.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Who cares if Ron doesn't see the value in paying $$$ ( fill in your preferred number) on Wadax? It's his personal opinion. I see no evidence whatsoever that he has some kind of hidden agenda other than he generally isn't a digital guy. If Ron voicing his opinion makes you feel foolish for having yours then maybe re evaluate things. If it doesn't then respectfully disagree with him and move on.

the point is not whether Ron likes the Wadax, or he hates it. or even his value judgment. not everyone will see the value in any product. the problem is throwing a number out to make his point without doing his homework. then blaming it on the Wadax rep.

 

[Stereophonic]

you are not an amateur. you are a dealer and reviewer and blogger.

Hi Mike.
Is Ron a dealer? What brand?

 

[Al M.]

The partisanship and defensiveness on DACs appears to me subjectively to be more extreme than the partnership on other components. I wonder why this is?

I just thought of a hypothesis: maybe the subjective sonic differences between DACs are smaller and more difficult to discern than are the subjective sonic differences between other types of components, and so people feel more emotionally compelled to defend their expensive choice?

I guess it's more about people getting prickly regarding their expensive investments and wanting to be top dog in the SOTA department. All I would suggest to people, relax. If you're happy with your purchase, that's all that counts.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Hi Mike.
Is Ron a dealer? What brand?

click on his signature toggle and this is what appears. Ron also offers hifi consultant services. he is a professional.

Dealer for Clarisys Audio and Hegel Music Systems

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I guess it's more about people getting prickly regarding their expensive investments and wanting to be top dog in the SOTA department. All I would suggest to people, relax. If you're happy with your purchase, that's all that counts.

when the Wadax gets a $600k label hung on it, that is what people remember. need to nip it in the butt. it's wrong.

only prickly about generalizations that are not fair. not fighting against value or performance opinions.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Yes cannot discern the difference in digital much and it is usually bad which is why the DHTed Lampis stand out. With analog while differences can be made out a lot of analog is good, so one can focus on records. It is a similar thing between SS amps and low watt SETs and push pull amps.

you don't sit in your room 4-8 hours a day and listen to digital. you do fly-bys. so digital differences mean less to you. fair enough.

i do agree that with digital the differences are less in some ways. but with the amount of listening one does those differences can mean much, much more to the listener. each person has their own weighted viewpoint.

 

[Arewethereyet]

The Wadax set-up in the M9 room MSRPs for $600,000. I don't hear a big difference between $100,000 digital and $350,000 digital and $600,000 digital. My personal favorite digital stuff is Horizon plus Olympus, for a total of $150,000 or so, a fraction of dCS and Wadax.

I would much rather spend the next hundred thousand dollars on a tape machine -- on which I do hear a big difference.

+1.

The M9 room was visually stunning and quite a privilege for the audio community to experience the achievement of the considerable time energy and money invested into this technology which inevitably trickles down to components affordable by a broader audience. Probably number 1 for visual impact.

Both my son and I agreed that this room was far from landing in the top 10 sonically at AXPONA this year. But, I attribute to the room limitations rather than the component capabilities. The room with the Wilson XVX, Dag Relentless, DCS Varese looked and sounded outstanding comparatively speaking to the M9 room. So did the Estelon room with the two tape decks, a personal favorite.

What great options we have.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

+1.

The M9 room was visually stunning and quite a privilege for the audio community to experience the achievement of the considerable time energy and money invested into this technology which inevitably trickles down to components affordable by a broader audience. Probably number 1 for visual impact.

Both my son and I agreed that this room was far from landing in the top 10 sonically at AXPONA this year. But, I attribute to the room limitations rather than the component capabilities. The room with the Wilson XVX, Dag Relentless, DCS Varese looked and sounded outstanding comparatively speaking to the M9 room. So did the Estelon room with the two tape decks, a personal favorite.

What great options we have.

that M9 room is the same room Elliot had for the last 3-4 years and it's a problem room with all the windows and alcoves. Elliot fought it and fought it and finally bailed on it. too bad the gear deserved and deserves better.

such are shows.

 

[Stereophonic]

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...dude. That's f-ed up.

 

[bonzo75]

Says you.

Wow, you guessed (blushing)

 

[bonzo75]

you are not an amateur. you are a dealer and reviewer

I don’t see what the first part of the sentence has to do with the next two

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I don’t see what the first part of the sentence has to do with the next two

expectations for Ron in terms of getting it right, and taking care, are higher than the casual WBF poster. step into the light, and accept the responsibility that it brings. if you shortcut then it can blow back. and those who are effected might push back a little. it's the territory he has chosen to occupy.

he is not being accused of any great sin. just taking liberties to make a point.