dCS Varese short review

[PeterA]

Peter, well set up digital offers a lot more than “convenience.” But if it makes you feel better about your choices by dismissing other paths (without, in my opinion, the experience to authoritatively do so) I suppose you will continue to use this forum to do so.

Yes it does offer more than convenience, but certainly convenience, unlike vinyl for instance. As I wrote, it offers different sonic presentations, as does vinyl.

I remember contemplating adding Digital to my system in the days that I would do DAC shootouts. I did like the Rossini DAC more than Spectral and another one. I did prefer dCS to Schiite but my local friends did not. They have now moved on from there and I am still streaming in my truck and playing CDs there.

 

[thedudeabides]

Digital people here are more into audiophile tracks and style of listening

Huh. Please explain. What is the basis for your generalization which, like all other statements of this kind, are patently false and not supported by any objective measure? And what is "style of listening"? Another self righteous lame attempt to support your bias?

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...initially, I selected digital music for convenience, having given away about 500 "records" to move to Japan, return date unknown.

For a proof-of-concept exploration, I set-up a Raspberry Pi with a NAS and used the dac in my Luxman SACD player. It sounded nice and was very convenient, however one might define that.

It seemed there might be something to the concept for me.

Fast forward through various versions of servers, network experiments/optimizations and rips and downloads, and here I am:

Taiko Olympus, Synology NAS, audio-only fiber ISP and a Taiko network stack.

Whoah, gents, it sounds awesome over here. Awesome.

Last week I went to a small concert in Hatch Hall, Eastman Theater. It's a modern hall, and not everyone loves it...audience or musicians. It's a "loud" room. IIRC, they can tune the baffles/walls to get a desired effect.

This was a birthday celebration for Nicholas Goluses, the guitarist. With the small venue, it's very personal. A Reisch piece with 16 guitars, Ying Quartet, with guitar. A few folk songs with guitar, and some Piazzolla bits with guitar and YooJin Jang on the Eastman "strad."

Afferwards, I played some of those pieces at home. Is it the same? Of course not. The visual elements alone are too powerful to overcome. But the sound, the emotion, the love is there. It's awesome. It's digital. And, it is convenient.

Perhaps suffering is part of the vinyl experience? Like the tango, this is vinyl, you must suffer to understand.

Or, just select your file and feel the digital love.

 

[PeterA]

You are free to have your interpretation of "perfect sound forever" - a great marketing claim of the 80s. But In general, remembering the articles from the 80's , the sentence had a clear meaning:

"Perfect Sound": The idea was that digital audio (specifically 16-bit/44.1kHz PCM) could reproduce music without the distortion, hiss, or wear that plagued analog formats" (we should remember that LP pressings of late 70's and 80's were poor.

"Forever": CDs don't degrade with repeated plays the way vinyl or tapes do—no needle wear, no tape stretching—so they promised a long-lasting, consistent listening experience. (most quality LPs of the 60's and early 70's were ruined by frequent playback and poor equipment at the 80's.)

And again, claiming perfection of an imperfect media - stereo - is ridiculous. Why spending time saying it again and again and trying to use it as a weapon?

You seem to have missed the thrust of my argument completely. The brilliant marketing campaign from the 80s, or however, you want to describe it, implied to me at least that digital reproduction would mean digital players would all sound the same or at least very similar. Perfect conversion of the zeros and ones. We see now exemplified in the subject of this thread, that digital implementations can sound very different from each each each other,just like different vinyl implementations. Perfect implies accurate adherence to the recording. No need for improvement or differences. We see that this is not the case at all with digital. Lots of different presentations. And my friends keep trying new DCAs. It raises some interesting questions about measurements and how complete a picture they really paint.

 

[JiminGa]

You wrote in the wrong thread.
Send it to Olympus one....

No idea what you are talking about but I will assume that nothing sank in.

 

[microstrip]

You seem to have missed the thrust of my argument completely. The brilliant marketing campaign from the 80s, or however, you want to describe it, implied to me at least that digital reproduction would mean digital players would all sound the same or at least very similar. Perfect conversion of the zeros and ones.

Well, at that time you were sharing the blissed lack of curiosity of most members of the ASR forum. Nothing new.

We see now exemplified in the subject of this thread, that digital implementations can sound very different from each each each other,just like different vinyl implementations.

This compare is misleading and will lead you out of the road. The reasons for the differences in sound between digital implementations and vinyl are fundamentally different.

Perfect implies accurate adherence to the recording. No need for improvement or differences. We see that this is not the case at all with digital. Lots of different presentations.

Students are often asked a tricky question - connect two ideal voltage sources of 2 and 3V in parallel with zero resistance wires. What is the measured voltage of this new voltage source?

Do you know what is the correct answer?

And my friends keep trying new DCAs.

I also would love to try a new DAC in my system ...

It raises some interesting questions about measurements and how complete a picture they really paint.

It seems to me this has been addressed since long ... In the high-end measurements are simply complimentary. Some people simply ignore them.

 

[PeterA]

Yes you chose it for the sonics

Perhaps also as a value proposition. I can’t speak for Al. The cost of getting into vinyl with all of the equipment needed for a decent front end plus a good record collection, some might argue that it is less expensive to get into digital.

Sonics, convenience, and cost. Perhaps there are other considerations as well.

 

[Al M.]

Huh. Please explain. What is the basis for your generalization which, like all other statements of this kind, are patently false and not supported by any objective measure? And what is "style of listening"? Another self righteous lame attempt to support your bias?

Don't bother.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I understand that it is a sensitive issue, it seems for you especially. I get it.

when the subject is the American Sound turntable, or Lamm, or natural sound, it's especially sensitive for you too. i can relate. i'm bought in fully on uber digital as much as anyone here. it's my wheel house.

but it took Ron to get me deep into this thread.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Digital people here are more into audiophile tracks and style of listening

that's just wrong and a pathetic shot over the bow.

I say that based on the participation of discussion and videos shared by digital listeners.

not close to making sense. that tiny sample size is not relevant.

 

[PeterA]

when the subject is the American Sound turntable, or Lamm, or natural sound, it's especially sensitive for you too. i can relate. i'm bought in fully on uber digital as much as anyone here. it's my wheel house.

but it took Ron to get me deep into this thread.

I actually see a big difference, Mike, but this is not the place to discuss it.

 

[wil]

You seem to have missed the thrust of my argument completely. The brilliant marketing campaign from the 80s, or however, you want to describe it, implied to me at least that digital reproduction would mean digital players would all sound the same or at least very similar. Perfect conversion of the zeros and ones. We see now exemplified in the subject of this thread, that digital implementations can sound very different from each each each other,just like different vinyl implementations. Perfect implies accurate adherence to the recording. No need for improvement or differences. We see that this is not the case at all with digital. Lots of different presentations. And my friends keep trying new DCAs. It raises some interesting questions about measurements and how complete a picture they really paint.

Isn’t it little naive to take an obvious marketing bs blurb and conflate into a serious claim?

And the narrative some are posting here that the ongoing improvements in digital playback is somehow an inherent weakness to the medium strikes me as truly odd.

I personally find it very exciting to see the ongoing exploration into improving digital year by year. And it has improved a great deal in the last decade. Taiko has implemented a simple Dac card into their Olympus server which has a significant number of users selling their expensive dacs. This has resulted in a net $$ savings with a significant improvement in music reproduction. Their dac v2 will reportedly be another forward step at again a negligible cost.

Large scale orchestral music has always been the most challenging test for me. But Ive been listening to nothing but the last two months and with good recordings the results are thrilling. Hosanna!

 

[pk_LA]

As I read through the various posts and chuckle I am reminded of some things.
1) The Wadax is a great dac - I don't think anyone disagrees. That said, the Varese is a great da... and better in some respects, and to some tastes.
2) This whole business of implying that the Wadax (or Varese for that metter) is some kind of end-game dac is folly. I remember when Mike got his Wadax and declared it to be his end-game dac. Well, he then added power supplies and cables etc to it to the tune of over $100,000 retail. My point is that NONE of these are end-game dacs. In a few years we will look at the Wadax like we look back on dacs like the MSB Select and dCS Vivaldi now. Good, but certainly not the best.
3) The loyal defenders of Wadax are impressive - very diligent and very activated. Nothing short of superlative language will be tolerated! I think someone on this thread referred to the like the Praetorian Guard.

I think the reason that dacs are so controversial is because the price vs. evolution curve is akin to Moore's Law. While certainly not as steep, dacs are the most rapidly evolving tech in the space.

 

[PeterA]

Isn’t it little naive to take an obvious marketing bs blurb and conflate into a serious claim?

I don’t remember characterizing it as an obvious marketing BS blurb at the time, but in hindsight, it certainly has been discredited by digital advocates and completely abandoned, except in the sense that microstrip explained up thread in a serious way.

I personally find it very exciting to see the ongoing exploration into improving digital year by year. And it has improved a great deal in the last decade. Taiko has implemented a simple Dac card into their Olympus server which has a significant number of users selling their expensive dacs. This has resulted in a net $$ savings with a significant improvement in music reproduction. Their dac v2 will reportedly be another forward step at again a negligible cost.

I completely agree. I would love to see continuing performance advances in digital source components and I would love to see the prices come down. I see streaming as the future and I really hope it improves.

 

[bonzo75]

Tbh a price over 10 to 15k for digital is like hoping to turn water into wine for Easter by paying a 1000 dollars for an Evian. But people will do that

 

[PeterA]

Tbh a price over 10 to 15k for digital is like hoping to turn water into wine for Easter by paying a 1000 dollars for an Evian. But people will do that

Ked, do you have a favorite DAC? And how would you describe its presentation?

 

[Audiocrack]

Are you suggesting that, in this case, form follows function?

Yes as regards the three part framework / housing of the reference dac. The ‘punk looks’ of the front is another matter of course (and that is the reason why I used the word ‘partly’ in my previous reply).

 

[bonzo75]

Ked, do you have a favorite DAC? And how would you describe its presentation?

Yes but not going there because then it will get into analog vs digital again.

I would say that listening to ripped vinyl on YouTube over Naim boombox sounds better than 97% of Hifi systems playing digital. You can listen to entire concerts, unlike digital people I know who struggle to listen to a complete track before jumping the queue

 

[andromedaaudio]

As I read through the various posts and chuckle I am reminded of some things.
1) The Wadax is a great dac - I don't think anyone disagrees. That said, the Varese is a great da... and better in some respects, and to some tastes.
2) This whole business of implying that the Wadax (or Varese for that metter) is some kind of end-game dac is folly. I remember when Mike got his Wadax and declared it to be his end-game dac. Well, he then added power supplies and cables etc to it to the tune of over $100,000 retail. My point is that NONE of these are end-game dacs. In a few years we will look at the Wadax like we look back on dacs like the MSB Select and dCS Vivaldi now. Good, but certainly not the best.
3) The loyal defenders of Wadax are impressive - very diligent and very activated. Nothing short of superlative language will be tolerated! I think someone on this thread referred to the like the Praetorian Guard.

I think the reason that dacs are so controversial is because the price vs. evolution curve is akin to Moore's Law. While certainly not as steep, dacs are the most rapidly evolving tech in the space.

In a few years we will look back and
say :
How could we be so dumb to expect to have top digital sound for only half a million dollars and only 6 Boxes.

 

[Al M.]

There is no single reference that accommodates all listener preferences. That goes for everything in audio and indeed in life. People seek joy in different ways. Don't make the mistake of thinking that your choices apply to anyone other than yourself. Accept and appreciate everyone's differences. Doing so will deepen your understanding of your own

Indeed, there is no single reference. Here is a voice critical of the Wadax (post #182):

dCS Varese short review

I’m not into Digital, but as someone who pays attention to aesthetics, it’s very interesting to me how different the dCS approach is to the Wadax approach. It seems both the look and user interface are very different beyond the obvious similarity to employ many boxes. Could those of you who...

www.whatsbestforum.com

Here is another, #91:

dCS Varese short review

Interesting point. And I have pondered it. I am in the fortunate position that I can compare similar SACD and vinyl issues back-to-back. A company by the name of TRPTK makes state-of-the-art digital recordings. Its recording techniques, and resulting recordings, are superior to anything I know...

www.whatsbestforum.com

I am curious to hear the DAC myself.