Degritter ultrasonic record cleaner

Hi y’all, just a few words on what I think is a worthy alternative to the Audio Desk Systeme and KLAudio ultrasonic cleaners.

http://degritter.com/media-kit/

I’ve been a beta tester on the Degritter for the last few weeks, and am happy to offer my opinions and answer any qs for those interested.

I believe official launch is in early May, and at this stage after a couple of quibbles in day to day use, I’m planning to keep my unit, it’s been a pretty good success, and invaluable addition to day to day life as a vinyl addict.

 

Maybe the issue are aspects of your DIY design. I am finding just the opposite after owning an Audio Desk and KL Audio which I find both acceptable. I am starting to think that the one of the key components to the process is having a clean solution for every cleaning.

 

What does the degritter do, if anything, to keep the water clean or filtered in between changes?

It has a particulate filter. I rinse it about every 25 cleanings, and I have several spares. I also change out the water at the same interval.

 

Maybe the issue are aspects of your DIY design. I am finding just the opposite after owning an Audio Desk and KL Audio which I find both acceptable.

Which is why I'm going to purchase a commercial unit specifically designed to clean records.

 

However, 20-30% of my records need 2-3 cleanings, and maybe 10% never get rid of enough clicks and pops to make the record listenable. I am planning to buy an US cleaner that both works better AND is more user-friendly.

Sadly, some records will never come free of clicks and pops with cleaning. I've come to believe the quality of the vinyl used to make a record can be a factor in its sound.

What do you think kept your DIY US RCM from cleaning a higher percentage of records to your satisfaction?

 

Some vinyl is indeed just pressed poorly and comes out scratchy. Sample to sample variations. I've swapped out a few records to get clean sounding copies. My unscientific observation has been that colored vinyl is a much bigger crapshoot than regular black vinyl.

 

Guys, US cleaning, cleaning in general, is no panacea for poor vinyl, groove wear etc.

Re poor vinyl, I swear I'm close to never buying any more modern day lps.

 

Sadly, some records will never come free of clicks and pops with cleaning. I've come to believe the quality of the vinyl used to make a record can be a factor in its sound.

What do you think kept your DIY US RCM from cleaning a higher percentage of records to your satisfaction?

That’s a good question, and I wish I knew the answer.

I was initially sceptical that US cleaning would better Disk Doctor brushes followed by VPI vacuum cleaning. But time and time again I found myself surprised at how many of those previously cleaned but still unlistenable records were virtually click and pop free after US cleaning. My conclusion was that US cleaning really did get into and clean the grooves better. There is no doubt in my mind that that is the case.

But there was still a sizeable percentage of LPs that while cleaner, were not clean enough. Of those records, I found that some, maybe a third, could still be click and pop free if cleaned longer. Initially I used 5 minutes but found that these “problem” records needed longer. 2-3 cleanings of 25 minutes each would salvage some, but not all. Also, cleaning 1 or 2 at a time instead of 4 at a time seemed to help. My sense is, although I’m not confident, is that the first and last tracks are often the most difficult to get clean in my system. All of these considerations make me wonder if a different (better) design would improve the cleaning.

So In my experience, most records can be made almost click and pop free with US cleaning. But I still am uncertain when those remaining records are still unclean vs. “bad vinyl”.

 

My experience has been that some records require a hand pre-wash. To do this I use I hand scrub the LPs with a Disc Doctor brush and L'Art du Son. Afterwards I run it through an ultrasonic clean.

 

The Degritter at Munich High End

 

Met these guys here in Munich, they really seem to know what they're doing. They've even updated their brochure with full references to articles and quotes backing their claims. Impressive

 

Alex, I met Taniel when he visited London ahead of the beta test period. My chat w him convinced me to go w him. Like Jarek of Stacore and Vic of Trans Fi/Salvation, I felt my chats w these guys gave me the confidence to take the plunge. Now Degritter.

 

Where are firmware updates located? Thanks.

I promised a software upgrades to Richard by the end of this week. Unfortunately the Munich Show took up a lot of our time and we will most probably get it out by the end of this week.

We have improved the software constantly, meaning that our clients who received their machine later have a higher software version with small improvements on their machine already.

The plan with the software updates in general is to create a page on our website from where you can see the change log between different versions and based on this you can decide if you want to upgrade or not.

The planned changes in the upcoming software update are:
- fixed automatic sleep mode. (Machine will turn itself off after 15min)
- improved sensor readings for the bottom most sensor. Means that the need for cleaning bottom most sensor is reduced
- we are looking into improving the draining of the water so that there would be less water droplets left on the record and this in turn would speed up the drying process.

For the next bigger update we have planned an UI overhaul in a sense that we would like to significantly improve the readability of the menu and the labels of washing program states.

 

Lol @Michael Fremer! Funny moments start @3:13. Go to 7:08 for Michael's thoughts about the afore-mentioned 'incident'. Those guys at Live Act Audio GMBH are slightly crazy

 

Oh man, that guy pulling the record out of the Degritter!

I wonder if he's associated with Degritter or just another vendor. That was among the most bone-headed moves I've seen. There should have been fisticuffs outside in the parking lot ;-)

 

I promised a software upgrades to Richard by the end of this week. Unfortunately the Munich Show took up a lot of our time and we will most probably get it out by the end of this week.

We have improved the software constantly, meaning that our clients who received their machine later have a higher software version with small improvements on their machine already.

The plan with the software updates in general is to create a page on our website from where you can see the change log between different versions and based on this you can decide if you want to upgrade or not.

The planned changes in the upcoming software update are:
- fixed automatic sleep mode. (Machine will turn itself off after 15min)
- improved sensor readings for the bottom most sensor. Means that the need for cleaning bottom most sensor is reduced
- we are looking into improving the draining of the water so that there would be less water droplets left on the record and this in turn would speed up the drying process.

For the next bigger update we have planned an UI overhaul in a sense that we would like to significantly improve the readability of the menu and the labels of washing program states.

Sounds good. The auto-off is a nice-to-have feature.

I'm not sure what the water draining issue is, but I've noticed that some vinyl comes out of the wash cycle absolutely drenched and can take 6 minutes to dry fully on fan power 14. Particularly my older records, for whatever reason. Other records come out of the wash cycle with hardly any water "stuck" to them and are bone dry in under 3 minutes.

I was not aware of the need to clean the sensors. How does one do this?

Thanks.

 

Oh man, that guy pulling the record out of the Degritter!

I wonder if he's associated with Degritter or just another vendor. That was among the most bone-headed moves I've seen. There should have been fisticuffs outside in the parking lot ;-)

Yes if that guy had any idea how careful MF is with this records, he would have kept his sweaty paws off his vinyl (heck, anyone's vinyl! ). The guy is Martin Hoefle from Live Act Audio GmbH who manufacture loudspeakers, so no relation to Degritter.

 

Yes if that guy had any idea how careful MF is with this records, he would have kept his sweaty paws off his vinyl (heck, anyone's vinyl! ). The guy is Martin Hoefle from Live Act Audio GmbH who manufacture loudspeakers, so no relation to Degritter.

Ok, at least he's not going to be fired by Degritter He should know you don't treat *anyone's* record like that! Though I would cut some slack - he's so focused on the fact he's got Michael Fremer interviewing him on camera I'm sure he wasn't in a state of thinking all his actions through - just acting quickly for his demo.

 

I'm not sure what the water draining issue is, but I've noticed that some vinyl comes out of the wash cycle absolutely drenched and can take 6 minutes to dry fully on fan power 14. Particularly my older records, for whatever reason. Other records come out of the wash cycle with hardly any water "stuck" to them and are bone dry in under 3 minutes.

One suggestion is to use a wetting agent in the solution mix. I suggest Ilford Ifotol which is designed as a final rinse in photograph development. (Photo developers do not want want water drying on their photos.) Ilfotol reduces the surface tension of the solution causing it to sheet off a vinyl record rather than clinging as drops. You can buy it online.

My current formula: To roughly 3 gallons of distilled water add 1? cup of 99% pure Isopropyl Alcohol (IPA) and .9 tablespoons of Ilfotol. Exact amounts are not required.

Pulling a spindle of 5-6 records out of a USC tank I can see the water slide off. Give the spindle a bit of a shake and all but a small triangle of water is left and no drops. I let the records air dry, which takes maybe 10 minutes.

Distilled water alone is not enough. You really need a surfactant (IPA) to aid cleaning. I don't know what is in the Degritter solution, but you might ask if it includes a wetting agent.

 

I found through trial and error that, when I used the surfactant, records would almost all come out dry with a drying time of 4:15 minutes.
I've tried washing without the surfactant and the drying time takes noticeably longer. I'm on a default of 6:15 for drying.

I now have an extra water tank so in some instances I'm doing a wash with surfactant, followed by a quick wash with no surfactant and a 6:15 drying time.

 

How much surfactant are you using per tank? I use 1 mL. What I said previously was based on this amount.