Detailed Speaker Setup and Optimization

[Kingrex]

Thomas, you don't use your peaked room anymore?

 

[Al M.]

I cringe when I read this type of post that details the precision, experience, time and anxiety needed to set up any speaker. As Elliot alluded to earlier, you can't really learn this on your own. I mean, sure, you can. But your going to flounder, stumbling in the dark before the effort begins to reveal light.

Yes, you can. You already watched the Jim Smith video, and you can go from there. I learned it by trying on my own. It takes lots of time and effort, but it's totally worth it. And it's a fun process, too.

Just document what you hear at every speaker position, and go through a lot of diverse musical material each time. A position that works for some music may not work for another type of music. At some stage you'll figure out what the pain points are and what to listen for on each track.

 

[Kingrex]

Im going to.design a new DSP where the speakers are on crawlers and the sweeps activate the crawlers to move the speakers into position.

 

[Lagonda]

Im going to.design a new DSP where the speakers are on crawlers and the sweeps activate the crawlers to move the speakers into position.

That sounds like something B&O would do. They already have the automated retractable microphone, that does measurements and dsp. Still sounds like shit, but looks cool.

 

[Elliot G.]

My new room looks like this.
You didn’t choose an easy space to conquer

 

[andromedaaudio]

If it doesnt sound good one can always bring in the nucleair option .
100 K cables

 

[Amir]

I know.

Let me relate a lot of what you said to another hobby of mine -- woodworking. Just because I can go out and buy a tablesaw, jointer, planer, etc. doesn't mean I know how to use this equipment. I can even read the manual. That doesn't mean I have the experience to truly operate the machinery safely. And even if I can operate it that doesn't mean I know how to build a Bombay chest. This is why I paid money to people with decades of experience to teach me how to build fine furniture. What was the credentials of the people I hired to teach me? They didn't have a college degree or certificates or any other of that junk. The knowledge they had was easily demonstrable. And one could see the quality in the things they built.

What is the credentials of a Jim Smith or Stirling Trayle or some others. Well, they have decades of experience doing this for a living. And the knowledge they have is easily demonstrable. And I can see the quality in their work.

I know what happen when speakers are in right position. It is like magic . Yes Jim Smith and Stirling Trayle can help

 

[Amir]

Roy Gregory just posted a "review" of the work done by Stirling Trayle in an extremely challenging room. It highlights the degree of accuracy needed to get the sound right. I think most would have visted this persons room and told him he neeed to fill it with absorption panels or that he needed DSP. When all that is needed is a very detailed and precise adjustment of the speakers. It is amazing how much of the room can be windowed out.

It is unfortunate that in reading the review we can't hear the before and after but I am very certain that the after is spectacular and beyond belief.

Tempting Fate? - Gy8

The art of extracting real performance in a real world situation…

gy8.eu

Thank you for this topic
I think speaker placement is so much important.

 

[PeterA]

I just don’t get this logic. To me working on your system is one of the most satisfying and rewarding parts of this hobby. Last night I was “playing” around in my listening room and I was like a kid, my wife had to text me that it was almost 1am and to come down, which like a kid I didn’t want to stop ”playing”. Relinquishing the setup and moving stuff around part of the hobby is something I would never do.

Furthermore, can someone provide a link to these individual’s qualifications, so that I can read up on what gives them the skills that other mortal men do not apparently seem to have or possess. What makes these men more qualified and competent than than Todd, who claims to be a scientist/engineer, to set up his own Trio system for example?

The high-End audio world is full of ignorant and foolish practices and to me this one falls in that bucket. If you are not smart enough to set up your own equipment then why bother with the great investment. You want to bring other qualified individuals to take care of other duties in the house?

You said that you liked the sound of my DHT/SET/HORN system, it took me less than an hour to reposition that system, from one of the short walls in the room to along one of the long walls, and to dial it in to make it sing. I enjoyed the work and the fruits of my work and call me a narcissist or whatever but I do not want to give that credit to anyone else. It is so rewarding when you do it yourself instead of opening up your wallet and declaring incompetency.

Carlos, I get this and agree completely. However, some in the hobby don’t have this interest. One must have the inclination and ability to do it or at least attempt to do it. If not, I respect that self-awareness and willingness to hire someone else to do it for you, especially given the cost and potential of some of these systems.

I worked on these set up issues myself for years and then learned some tips from Jim Smith and then David Karmeli by watching them in my room. That supplemented and improved my knowledge, but I like to tinker and adjust the set up for my own preference. But that is part of my nature. I’ve learned a lot from watching David Karmeli set up systems. His knowledge and experience are very high-level so there’s always something to learn from such experts, but I also get what you are saying by doing it yourself.

This is a very individual hobby, and I think people should do what they think is best for them.

 

[PeterA]

Are you sure you mean 1 mm? Not 1 cm?
It is difficult to even move a speaker for only 1 mm. Too much precision and I don't get it making so. much difference.
Now, 1 cm is ok.

1 mm of toe in or rake angle at the speaker becomes a much larger dimension at the listening seat and how the speaker interacts with the room.

I think it also depends on the type of speaker, the type of music, and for what one is listening.

 

[Amir]

Dear Peter,

I am 100% sure Carlos did not have the experience of perfect speaker placement.
This experience is rare (very very rare) and I just had it two times since 2000.

I do not know if Stirling Trayle can find it in two days but this task is not easy.

I can find good speaker position before 8 hours if the room be ok but finding perfect speaker position is not easy, you may never find it .

it is like full reaction of g-spot in sexual relationship.

 

[PeterA]

Dear Peter,

I am 100% sure Carlos did not have the experience of perfect speaker placement.
This experience is rare (very very rare) and I just had it two times since 2000.

I do not know if Stirling Trayle can find it in two days but this task is not easy.

I can find good speaker position before 8 hours if the room be ok but finding perfect speaker position is not easy, you may never find it .

it is like full reaction of g-spot in sexual relationship.

You mean, knowing when it all comes together.

 

[dcathro]

My new room looks like this.

Good luck with this one!!!

Symmetrical cuboid rooms are much easier to acoustically model and treat.

I would be getting some help/advice from an acoustic specialist if I were you.

 

[treitz3]

So let's talk about what I did today in my soundroom.

There is a sense of acoustic freedom that was not there before. The room truly doesn't seem to play a part at all anymore. Yes my speakers disappeared before I did this but not in the same way. There is a total removal of the feeling of spacial limitations even thought there obviously are.

This. This is great example, spoken in layman's words that one can understand. When everything is dialed in? It is a different listening experience. One that is a treat to listen too. Once one loses that experience? They yearn to get it back.

Knowing HOW to get it back takes experience and a bit of time (and effort). At the end of the day? It's worth it. SO totally worth it.

Tom

 

[sbo6]

Dear Peter,

I am 100% sure Carlos did not have the experience of perfect speaker placement.
This experience is rare (very very rare) and I just had it two times since 2000.

I do not know if Stirling Trayle can find it in two days but this task is not easy.

I can find good speaker position before 8 hours if the room be ok but finding perfect speaker position is not easy, you may never find it .

it is like full reaction of g-spot in sexual relationship.

There is no "perfect speaker placement", it's subjective. One man's enhanced bass at 80Hz is another man's clinical soundscape.

 

[Amir]

What is perfect speaker placement?

http://goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=1&postID=994#994

 

[Amir]

Stirling Trayle
Sumiko master setup
Bob

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/the-sumiko-setup.5894/

 

[PeterA]

What is perfect speaker placement?

http://goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=1&postID=994#994

This is excellent. David Karmeli introduced me to Romy the Cat once. Both have strong characters and opinions about music and audio. I particularly like this point #2: Live music is all about the energy expanding into space from the instruments and the best systems and recordings can do this when properly set up. That is when you know you’re on the right path with your system. And when the magic happens.

“2) The strongest improvement takes place in the subjective domain, reflecting the emotion and spiritual content of recording. The DPoLS highlights the energy of performance; boosts the ethical load of the musical content, highlight the intonations and the timbre connections of the musical phrases. Starting with a certain level of capacity of the rest reproduction chain it is possible to talk about not “reproduction” but about the reinstating and resurrection of the “original energy of live”.”

 

[sbo6]

What is perfect speaker placement?

http://goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=1&postID=994#994

Thank you for proving my point. From Romy, "An optimum location of loudspeakers might be called an “optimum zone” beyond which the subjective characteristics of the loudspeaker’s performance degrade very rapidly and very aggressively." = a zone = not one spot = not on perfect positioning.

 

[sbo6]

Stirling Trayle
Sumiko master setup
Bob

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/the-sumiko-setup.5894/

Also, I know a client who used Stirling who stated, I can make your speakers sound the way you want (meaning like other brands) based on placement, positioning, sweet spot location, etc. There's certainly a region that's favorable to excellent playback, but not one perfect spot; we all have different taste.