Detailed Speaker Setup and Optimization

[PeterA]

Thank you for proving my point. From Romy, "An optimum location of loudspeakers might be called an “optimum zone” beyond which the subjective characteristics of the loudspeaker’s performance degrade very rapidly and very aggressively." = a zone = not one spot = not on perfect positioning.

Sound quality degrades once you’re out of the zone, but it also improves with fine-tuning within the zone With increasingly small incremental changes

 

[Macattack]

With recent changes to my system and with this thread hitting me everyday, I decided to dig in again on my setup.

I started by measuring 20hz to 300hz pink noise at my current listening position then at 1’ forward and 1’ backward, ending at 6” backward.

Then I started listening to reference tracks to see what the sound stage and overall tone had done. Turned out the move of the LP disconnected the soundstage some so I brought the speakers forward 6”. Viola soundstage came back with a much smoother low end.

At the same time, I reinvested the time to level the speakers and insure they are both pointed at the same point on the wall behind me as well as have the same rake.

Change is good. In the end, they disappear more than they did previously with much smoother bass, less overhang at the room resonance points and overall great tone.

I had a great setup. This thread along with my equipment changes, encouraged me to test that and as a result, things are better than ever. I may continue to tweak things in very small increments to find the edges of greatness from here.

Speaker placement is critical and is without a doubt, the cheapest ‘tweak’ any of us can make to improve the sound of our system in any room - don’t be afraid to experiment even if your system sounds great.

 

[Amir]

This is excellent. David Karmeli introduced me to Romy the Cat once. Both have strong characters and opinions about music and audio. I particularly like this point #2: Live music is all about the energy expanding into space from the instruments and the best systems and recordings can do this when properly set up. That is when you know you’re on the right path with your system. And when the magic happens.

“2) The strongest improvement takes place in the subjective domain, reflecting the emotion and spiritual content of recording. The DPoLS highlights the energy of performance; boosts the ethical load of the musical content, highlight the intonations and the timbre connections of the musical phrases. Starting with a certain level of capacity of the rest reproduction chain it is possible to talk about not “reproduction” but about the reinstating and resurrection of the “original energy of live”.”

Dear Peter, as I told before I am student of Romy and David , their huge experience can help a-lot.

Let me explain my experience when the speaker was in perfect position.

1- energy level of music was wonderful both emotional energy and physical energy in the room , it is like dream experience. The highest emotional reaction happens to music.

2- the sound is free from any dynamic compression and you can listen to music at much higher volume (higher SPL) without any stress

3- you absolutely do not think about the sound , it is just music fill your hearts

4- the image is very different, the sound is perfect in all area in the room not just in listening chair. Speakers fully disapear

5- the sound is much more open/transparent

very few audiophiles have this experience

 

[Amir]

Also, I know a client who used Stirling who stated, I can make your speakers sound the way you want (meaning like other brands) based on placement, positioning, sweet spot location, etc. There's certainly a region that's favorable to excellent playback, but not one perfect spot; we all have different taste.

DPOLS is the perfect position but you can find some other places less than perfect positions. For example you can find a good position for best soundstage but the dynamics is compress and also you can find a good place for best dynamics but not ideal soundstage.

As I told before I do not know if Stirling can find DPOLS or not (I doubt) but I think his experience can help alot.

 

[Amir]

the time you spend for speaker placement depends on room acoustics (shape only) . The room shape and speaker design both are important. My room acoustics is very awful because I spend many times to place my speakers but the result was not good enough.

If you are lucky then your room can help you to find a good speaker position for less time.

 

[PeterA]

Dear Peter, as I told before I am student of Romy and David , their huge experience can help a-lot.

Let me explain my experience when the speaker was in perfect position.

1- energy level of music was wonderful both emotional energy and physical energy in the room , it is like dream experience. The highest emotional reaction happens to music.

2- the sound is free from any dynamic compression and you can listen to music at much higher volume (higher SPL) without any stress

3- you absolutely do not think about the sound , it is just music fill your hearts

4- the image is very different, the sound is perfect in all area in the room not just in listening chair. Speakers fully disapear

5- the sound is much more open/transparent

very few audiophiles have this experience

I agree with this list. To your #2, I would just add that the sound is suddenly more immediate. The expansion of energy into the room is instantaneous. The result of all of this is a more natural or realistic listening experience. You get the gestalt of the music, no longer bits and pieces.

But, it is not just the result of optimal speaker set up, the whole system has to be well matched. Everything plays a role.

 

[sbnx]

What is perfect speaker placement?

http://goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=1&postID=994#994

I think this is an interesting article/post. This idea of a "dead point" where the speaker somehow magically works with the room is right on point. Note how small he says the spot is. This is what I have been attempting to explain. Not every spot you can place a speaker in a room is going to work. Some spots are better than others. But there are actually very few spots where the speaker will really work to its maximum potential. Of course the speaker can be optimized in any given spot. But the final SQ achieved is highly variable. But, if you find "The" spot then suddenly everything is quiet and the music is just singing in the room.

"To describe what the “dead points of live sound” I would say that inside of the “optimum zone” there is one smaller zone. The dimensions of this smaller zone are within the scale of 1/16” –1/32” and therefore this zone might be called - a single point in space, or the “dead point of live sound”

 

[sbnx]

Also, I know a client who used Stirling who stated, I can make your speakers sound the way you want (meaning like other brands) based on placement, positioning, sweet spot location, etc. There's certainly a region that's favorable to excellent playback, but not one perfect spot; we all have different taste.

It is true that you can adjust the speakers to tailor the sound. For example, if someone wants a wooly sound in the bass. Or Warm midrange, or BIG sound, or pinpoint imaging or they want a little bigger images etc. I am not sure if this is what you meant but someone isn't going to make a Sonus Faber sound like a Vivid speaker.

 

[Elliot G.]

I seriously doubt that Stirling was claiming he can make one speaker sound like some other brand, that would be just Magic. If that could be done why buy an expensive speaker ?

 

[andromedaaudio]

Make the speaker disappear , well known trick

 

[PeterA]

Make the speaker disappear , well known trick

Andro, You design speakers. How do you approach optimizing speaker performance in a room?

 

[andromedaaudio]

Andro, You design speakers. How do you approach optimizing speaker performance in a room?

First thing thats important is that the speaker is a balanced design / has a fair amount of bass extension.
Preferably 2 db max elevated , or flat in the bass
Second is that the amplification is excellent plus good source components .
Plus have the best room you can get off course

Moving speakers around is easy and low cost and with a bit of moving around you can get already good sound
Start 1 - 1, 5 meters of the back wall and 2, 5 - 3 meters apart , with slight toe in

Most important is that the stuff that you move around is worth moving around .
The speaker can have issues that the buyer is not aware off , it can then take years of moving /switching gear untill a final speaker change and everything settles in place .

Speaker placement is crucial , but if it takes weeks and weeks and its millimeter work between good and bad sound , ditch the gear

 

[andromedaaudio]

Good Tape is the easiest to get good sound with
It creates a bigger sound bubble around the speakers , makes set up seem less critical.
If i put on good tapes , there is only music , nothing relates to speakers.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I hope to up my speaker performance with possibly a WADAX studio player at the end of the tax year .
Unfortunately its a lot more expensive then moving speakers around .

 

[andromedaaudio]

Andro, You design speakers. How do you approach optimizing speaker performance in a room?

A good speaker design guides the buyer/ listener , like for example a Rockport LYRA

i haven t heard anybody complain about set up with those .

 

[Elliot G.]

good speaker design guides the buyer/ listener , like for example a Rockport LYRA

i haven t heard anybody complain about set up with those .

Not sure I understand your point. Are you saying that a Lyra does not need to be set up?
The better the speaker the more one can get from them and the more one can fine tune to reach higher levels.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Not sure I understand your point. Are you saying that a Lyra does not need to be set up?
The better the speaker the more one can get from them and the more one can fine tune to reach higher levels.

I m just saying i suspect they are easy to set up / basic
Off course you can go into more details and get better results with more attention /better set up .
Really difficult speakers most likely have issues of their own

 

[Elliot G.]

I m just saying i suspect they are easy to set up / basic
Off course you can go into more details and get better results with more attention /better set up .
Really difficult speakers most likely have issues of their own

They are excellent speakers however they are no easier nor harder than other good speaker of its type. So I don't agree.
They are easier than say those horns Todd was messing with or perhaps a huge 4 column speaker but they are capable of excellent sound and require careful placement. I do not believe that they are any easier than a Gobel, Magico, Focal etc. nor any harder. The process is the same actually even if the end results vary.

 

[PeterA]

A good speaker design guides the buyer/ listener , like for example a Rockport LYRA

i haven t heard anybody complain about set up with those .

I don’t see people complaining about set up with any speakers here. I see people asking questions about the best way to do it. Do you offer a buyer/ listener guide for your speakers?

 

[andromedaaudio]

Do you offer a buyer/ listener guide for your speakers?

Yes try them at home if possible.