Detailed Speaker Setup and Optimization
- Thread starter sbnx
- Start date
or newer rooms using QuietRock 545 THX. it has the mass and density resembling lath and plaster.
and then cover that Quietrock 545 THX with 3/4" finish grade plywood. no exposed sheetrock.
the bonus is your newer abode has working plumbing and electrical, and roof and windows do not leak.
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I think we need clarity. It is easy to misinterpret what someone says. Perhaps @stirlingtrayle would comment on this. I highly doubt he is going to say you can make speaker X sound like speaker Y with positioning etc. Although I would not blame him for not commenting on such a claim and being drug into such discussion.
Elliot G.
Industry Expert
He did not say that and I did speak to him to him this morning. I was defending a friend and those are not his claims nor his words.
I think in dpols speaker x is not equal to speaker y but the Stirling trayle @stirlingtrayle comments may refer to an interesting subject that is “comparing x vs y in dpols vs comparing x vs y in non-dpols” .
I just listened to two different amplifier when speaker was in perfect position, this was quite different to comparing same amplifiers when the speaker was not is perfect position.
I would like to see the @stirlingtrayle answer to this topic
I just listened to two different amplifier when speaker was in perfect position, this was quite different to comparing same amplifiers when the speaker was not is perfect position.
I would like to see the @stirlingtrayle answer to this topic
Okay, well... Please let me preface this by saying that I'm pretty certain I’ve said a boatload of stupid things in my life. In my memory, I can't remember saying its possible to make one brand’s speaker perform like another brand’s speaker, but if I did, I was not making myself clear. I have discussed with my clients that using speaker setup techniques, it possible to make speaker brand A sound similar to speaker brand B, the context being that we have latitude in how their speakers can sound in their system using setup techniques. Can one set-up a pair of Sound Lab electrostats to sound similar to a Sonus faber? Maybe, but only grossly so. It's been my experience that when well designed, executed, and setup speakers are compared, they often sound more similar than dissimilar. But the similarity in sound that they may share is most often swamped out by the differences in the way they perform. Because we are aware of so much more than just “the sound,” attributes such as coherence, dynamic range, and noise floor are things that are unique to each company’s design and excecution, but they are also the primary drivers in what the speaker does with the sound. So, while we might(!) be able to make a Sonus faber sound similar(emphasis on similar) to the Sound Lab, and without ascribing better or inferior to either speaker, it ain't never gonna perform like one. Additionally, the machinations required to alter the sound of one speaker to sound similar to another would probably mess up all of the other good stuff that speaker does. Setup what you have as best you can, and enjoy that. It's probably a really lovely speaker.
Amir, there was a discussion here, a while back about whether or not one should move speakers to a different position when trying different amplifiers. One school thought is you optimize the pairing based on positioning for best sound.
Personally, I would try both amplifiers in both speaker positions for a fuller picture. I agree, this is an interesting topic and I would welcome comments from those with more experience.
Yes sure, when you change the amplifier then the speaker position should change but my experience was about two similar amplifier from one brand and the only difference was the power.
No it doesn't. Don't think you can set standards in stone. It depends. On many things. Changing amps doesn't necessarily mean the tonality shift requires necessitating moving speakers. The balance isn't as delicate as you make it seem. Some advice with someone with almost half a century in audio, music and engineering - please don't dictate, offer suggestions.
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I think you have no experience about DPOLS.
Even Small changes in upstream change the equation and speakers should move.
Changing amplifier completely change the equations.
What about the number of people in the room? If a system is “perfectly” set up, to the point a knuckle rap to a speaker can profoundly change the sound, then surely the number of bodies in the room has a similarly profound effect. So, for example, if two people are setting up the room, does one leave while the other listens from the listening chair? I sure hope so. If the setup is optimized for one person, sitting alone in the room, what happens to the sound when, say, a spouse joins for a listening session? Are adjustments made to account for the additional presence of a large mass being added to the room?
Yes, still skeptical. Speaker position is critical, without a doubt, but in the real world (which is where we listen, not in a controlled lab environment) we need to be able to just listen without first doing a speaker bump for changes in humidity.
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And more to your point, the speed of sound is a function of the temperature of the air molecules. When the temperature changes in the room so does the sound characteristics in the room; this is easily observable.
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I agree with this. I would also add that I don’t want to have to worry about little things impacting the SQ of my room - number of people for example.
Of course, I go in spurts of obsession. Often, after I learn of something new on room acoustics. Most recently, I learned about the PSI AVAA C20 active bass traps. That has me focusing on setup again to take further advantage of their demonstrated performance. But with recent gains, I am now back to simply enjoying my room.
You beat me to it. Temperature, humidity, even altitude. Heck, how about movement / placement of a pillow or objects in the room? And when you're talking thousandths of a degree or of a fraction of a mm speaker positioning, movement of flooring material is likely that much with heat, humidity, vibrations (internal and external) and won't be consistent necessarily R to L speaker.
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I've owned Carver ALS and several ML speakers.
Changing amplifiers completely changes the equations? I don't think so.
He is talking about some "Romy the Cat" setup formula, not dipole speakers, he is a little hard to follow sometimes.
I can understand skepticism. This is something that is much easier to demonstrate then write.
Regarding changing components -- I explained this in a different thread but it belongs in this thread.
I think we all agree that the speaker interacts with the room. Where we place a speaker can ehnace or reduce the bass at out listening position. If this were not the case then everyone would just shove the speaker up against the wall and call it a day.
I also think most would acknowledge that the amplifier has a strong interaction with the speaker. e.g. Tubes typically have a much different bass sound than a solid state design. Then there is how much feedback the amplifier has as well as how much curent it can deliver to the speaker. etc.
So If A effects B and B effects C then A effects C. How is that for some math. If someone is using a solid state amp and changes to a tube amp the bass is going to be very different. Likely not very engaging. Simply move the speaker and find a different spot where the bass sounds good again. I am not saying you will be able to make the tube amp sound exactly like the solid state amp in the bass. But we can recover a lot of what was lost.
For clarity, this is not something I am just talking about, or read about or repeating what someone else has said. This is stuff I have personally experienced.
Regarding changing components -- I explained this in a different thread but it belongs in this thread.
I think we all agree that the speaker interacts with the room. Where we place a speaker can ehnace or reduce the bass at out listening position. If this were not the case then everyone would just shove the speaker up against the wall and call it a day.
I also think most would acknowledge that the amplifier has a strong interaction with the speaker. e.g. Tubes typically have a much different bass sound than a solid state design. Then there is how much feedback the amplifier has as well as how much curent it can deliver to the speaker. etc.
So If A effects B and B effects C then A effects C. How is that for some math.
If someone is using a solid state amp and changes to a tube amp the bass is going to be very different. Likely not very engaging. Simply move the speaker and find a different spot where the bass sounds good again. I am not saying you will be able to make the tube amp sound exactly like the solid state amp in the bass. But we can recover a lot of what was lost.For clarity, this is not something I am just talking about, or read about or repeating what someone else has said. This is stuff I have personally experienced.
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