"Do Vinyl Records Actually Sound Better Than CDs? We Take A Closer Look" in Slashgear

[the sound of Tao]

If there are more great artists now, greater than the ones from the past then why didn’t you name them instead of condescending my musical knowledge?

Even if I just stick with jazz musos and classical conductors… sure John Coltrane and Lee Morgan are great musos (love them) but why not Miles Davis, Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers, Kenny Drew, Paul Chambers, Philly Joe Jones, Thelonious Monk, Grachan Moncur III, Curtis Fuller, Herbie Hancock, Jackie McLean, Bob Cranshaw, Tony Williams, Wayne Shorter, Ron Carter, Dexter Gordon, Elvin Jones, Freddie Hubbard, Thelonious Monk, Idrees Sulieman, Chet Baker, Pharaoh Sanders, Danny Quebec West, Billy Smith and Sahib Shihab, Gene Ramey, McCoy Tyner, Joe Henderson, Ron Carter and Elvin Jones, Andrew Hill, Horace Silver, Eric Dolphy, Bobby Hutcherson, Richard Davis, Tony Williams, Grant Green, Reggie Workman, Billy Higgins, Freddie Hubbard, Charlie Parker, Charles Mingus, Dizzy Gillespie, Chet Baker, Bill Evans, Dave Brubeck, Sonny Rollins, Ornette Coleman, Django Reinhardt, Keith Jarrett, Chick Corea, Stan Getz, Max Roach, Ray Charles, Art Tatum, Bud Powell, Pat Metheny, Coleman Hawkins, Cannonball Adderley, Jimmy Smith and Ron Carter Donald Byrd, Dexter Gordon, Ornette Coleman, Jackie McLean, Herbie Hancock, Sonny Rollins, Thelonius Monk, Bud Powell, Miles Davis, Fats Navarro, Grant Green, Wayne Shorter, John Coltrane, Charles Mingus, Eric Dolphy, Charlie Parker, Art Blakey, Gill Evans, Paul Chambers, Ray Brown, Rhasaan Roland Kirk, Jimmy Smith, Horace Silver, Ahmed Jamal, Oscar Peterson, Joe Henderson, Art Pepper, Kenny Burrell, Freddy Hubbard, McCoy Tyner, Andrew Hill, Cecil Taylor, Johnny Coles, Milt Jackson, Duke Ellington… how do you limit the available greatness to a few even just with jazz

Hmm classical conductors who can easily make a claim on being great conductors… classical music greatness like all music is a living list…

Stokowski and Karajan, both influential but hardly going to be the only candidates for conducting greatness… how do you prove any of the following aren’t candidates just in classical conducting;

Claudio Abbado Marin Alsop Karel Ancerl Sir John Barbirolli Daniel Barenboim Sir Thomas Beecham Leonard Bernstein Karl Böhm Nadia Boulanger Pierre Boulez Sir Adrian Boult Sergiu Celibidache Riccardo Chailly Sir Colin Davis Antal Dorati Charles Dutoit Ivan Fischer Ferenc Fricsay Wilhelm Furtwängler Edward Gardener John Eliot Gardiner Daniele Gatti Valery Gergiev Carlo Maria Giulini Bernard Haitink Nikolaus Harnoncourt Jakub Hrusa Mariss Jansons Neeme Jarvi Eugen Jochum Vladimir Jurowski Carlos Kleiber Otto Klemperer Kirill Kondrashin Rafael Kubelík Lorin Maazel Sir Charles Mackerras Neville Marriner Zubin Mehta Pierre Monteux Evgeny Mravinsky Riccardo Muti Andris Nelsons Yannick Nézet-Séguin Eugene Ormandy Sakari Oramo Seiji Ozawa Kirill Petrenko Vasily Petrenko Andre Previn Sir Simon Rattle Fritz Reiner Sergei Rachmaninoff Mstislav Rostropovich Malcolm Sargent Leif Segerstam Leonard Slatkin Georg Solti George Szell Michael Tilson Thomas Arturo Toscanini Bruno Walter… it’s a silly exercise to try and name the best and actually be genuinely be authorative. Many of these recorded music in the analogue and in the digital era… music just continues.

 

[mtemur]

Even if I just stick with jazz musos and classical conductors… sure John Coltrane and Lee Morgan are great musos (love them) but why not Miles Davis, Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers, Kenny Drew, Paul Chambers, Philly Joe Jones, Thelonious Monk, Grachan Moncur III, Curtis Fuller, Herbie Hancock, Jackie McLean, Bob Cranshaw, Tony Williams, Wayne Shorter, Ron Carter, Dexter Gordon, Elvin Jones, Freddie Hubbard, Thelonious Monk, Idrees Sulieman, Chet Baker, Pharaoh Sanders, Danny Quebec West, Billy Smith and Sahib Shihab, Gene Ramey, McCoy Tyner, Joe Henderson, Ron Carter and Elvin Jones, Andrew Hill, Horace Silver, Eric Dolphy, Bobby Hutcherson, Richard Davis, Tony Williams, Grant Green, Reggie Workman, Billy Higgins, Freddie Hubbard, Charlie Parker, Charles Mingus, Dizzy Gillespie, Chet Baker, Bill Evans, Dave Brubeck, Sonny Rollins, Ornette Coleman, Django Reinhardt, Keith Jarrett, Chick Corea, Stan Getz, Max Roach, Ray Charles, Art Tatum, Bud Powell, Pat Metheny, Coleman Hawkins, Cannonball Adderley, Jimmy Smith and Ron Carter Donald Byrd, Dexter Gordon, Ornette Coleman, Jackie McLean, Herbie Hancock, Sonny Rollins, Thelonius Monk, Bud Powell, Miles Davis, Fats Navarro, Grant Green, Wayne Shorter, John Coltrane, Charles Mingus, Eric Dolphy, Charlie Parker, Art Blakey, Gill Evans, Paul Chambers, Ray Brown, Rhasaan Roland Kirk, Jimmy Smith, Horace Silver, Ahmed Jamal, Oscar Peterson, Joe Henderson, Art Pepper, Kenny Burrell, Freddy Hubbard, McCoy Tyner, Andrew Hill, Cecil Taylor, Johnny Coles, Milt Jackson, Duke Ellington… how do you limit the available greatness to a few even just with jazz

Hmm classical conductors who can easily make a claim on being great conductors… classical music greatness like all music is a living list…

Stokowski and Karajan, both influential but hardly going to be the only candidates for conducting greatness… how do you prove any of the following aren’t candidates just in classical conducting;

Claudio Abbado Marin Alsop Karel Ancerl Sir John Barbirolli Daniel Barenboim Sir Thomas Beecham Leonard Bernstein Karl Böhm Nadia Boulanger Pierre Boulez Sir Adrian Boult Sergiu Celibidache Riccardo Chailly Sir Colin Davis Antal Dorati Charles Dutoit Ivan Fischer Ferenc Fricsay Wilhelm Furtwängler Edward Gardener John Eliot Gardiner Daniele Gatti Valery Gergiev Carlo Maria Giulini Bernard Haitink Nikolaus Harnoncourt Jakub Hrusa Mariss Jansons Neeme Jarvi Eugen Jochum Vladimir Jurowski Carlos Kleiber Otto Klemperer Kirill Kondrashin Rafael Kubelík Lorin Maazel Sir Charles Mackerras Neville Marriner Zubin Mehta Pierre Monteux Evgeny Mravinsky Riccardo Muti Andris Nelsons Yannick Nézet-Séguin Eugene Ormandy Sakari Oramo Seiji Ozawa Kirill Petrenko Vasily Petrenko Andre Previn Sir Simon Rattle Fritz Reiner Sergei Rachmaninoff Mstislav Rostropovich Malcolm Sargent Leif Segerstam Leonard Slatkin Georg Solti George Szell Michael Tilson Thomas Arturo Toscanini Bruno Walter… it’s a silly exercise to try and name the best and actually be genuinely be authorative. Many of these recorded music in the analogue and in the digital era… music just continues.

Don't mislead the subject by naming old, before the Cd era artists? We are not discussing their greatness. I don't think it's an artist naming contest. I already said they're great and I guess everybody agree on that. Name the new artists (after Cd era) as good as the old ones (before Cd era) because you opposed my comment about the role of recording technology's influence on creativity and artistry. Than prove your point by naming the new equally great artists and music.

My below question is not answered yet.
If there are more great artists now, greater than the ones from the past then why didn’t you name them instead of condescending my musical knowledge?

 

[bonzo75]

Name the new artists (after Cd era) as good as the old ones (before Cd era)

Justin Bieber, Taylor Swift, spice girls…

 

[hopkins]

Don't mislead the subject by naming old, before the Cd era artists? We are not discussing their greatness. I don't think it's an artist naming contest. I already said they're great and I guess everybody agree on that. Name the new artists (after Cd era) as good as the old ones (before Cd era) because you opposed my comment about the role of recording technology's influence on creativity and artistry. Than prove your point by naming the new equally great artists and music.

My below question is not answered yet.
If there are more great artists now, greater than the ones from the past then why didn’t you name them instead of condescending my musical knowledge?

The question makes little sense. You cannot compare the number of artists today in a genre (ex: Jazz) which was so much more popular years ago than it is today. But there are certainly many very good jazz musicians today. Setting the "CD era" as a cut-off point makes even less sense.

How do you compare compare current artists with past artists across musical genres? How would you compare (random example) Prince's guitar playing (or Jimi Hendrix') with Charlie Christian's? What criteria would you use?

Here's a (relatively) young pianist I like, playing "contemporary" music:

Here's a Woody Shaw recording from 1987:

Does it even make sense to compare him to past greats? It's different.

Mark Turner, 2009:

There are many more - I am not that familiar with "contemporary" jazz, as there is so much to listen to from the previous eras, I just have not gotten around to it! I am sure others here could come up with many more current jazz artists that they appreciate.

This label issues a lot of good contemporary jazz artists (I have not delved into yet):

https://www.crisscrossjazz.com/index.html

Nowadays, young musicians are attracted to other music genres. But it does not mean they don't have talent. I can bet Erykah Badu would have been recognized as a great vocalist had she been born 50 years earlier.

 

[mtemur]

But it does not mean they don't have talent. I can bet Erykah Badu would have been recognized as a great vocalist had she been born 50 years earlier.

That’s what I’m talking about. Why? Why can’t they be great now? You cannot just say jazz is not popular as it has been 50 years ago. Maybe more people listening jazz compared to 50 years ago.

 

[hopkins]

That’s what I’m talking about. Why? Why can’t they be great now? You cannot just say jazz is not popular as it has been 50 years ago. Maybe more people listening jazz compared to 50 years ago.

I'm not sure I understand your comments, and to be honest I'm not sure it is worth discussing any of this much further. The premise, that CD somehow destroyed artistic talent and expression, is preposterous.

 

[hopkins]

Justin Bieber, Taylor Swift, spice girls…

 

[Ron Resnick]

The question makes little sense. You cannot compare the number of artists today in a genre (ex: Jazz) which was so much more popular years ago than it is today. But there are certainly many very good jazz musicians today. Setting the "CD era" as a cut-off point makes even less sense.

How do you compare compare current artists with past artists across musical genres?

+1

exactly

 

[the sound of Tao]

Don't mislead the subject by naming old, before the Cd era artists? We are not discussing their greatness. I don't think it's an artist naming contest. I already said they're great and I guess everybody agree on that. Name the new artists (after Cd era) as good as the old ones (before Cd era) because you opposed my comment about the role of recording technology's influence on creativity and artistry. Than prove your point by naming the new equally great artists and music.

My below question is not answered yet.
If there are more great artists now, greater than the ones from the past then why didn’t you name them instead of condescending my musical knowledge?

But the original point was that you claimed that there was no music worthy of praise produced in the last 40 years.

To be able to make that determination you’d have had to have checked every album produced in these last 40 years.

it was you that then swapped the discussion on to what artists today are as good as your list…. But I never made any comment about the artists of today being better or worse than anyone. Just that there continued to be great artists over the last 40 years… I’d never presume to be authoritative enough to claim any ultimately were better or even as good or rank them beyond me having preferences among them.

Many but certainly not all of my favourite jazz performers and classical conductors are on that list and I’d never be able to rank them… in a lifetime of listening I’d have heard only a part of their output. As for all the other music that has been made in the last 40 years I’d never pretend to have heard it all.

 

[wil]

If great music still exist as good as before the Cd era then where are the new Stokowski, Munch, Karajan, Lee Morgan, John Coltrane, Bill Evans, Pink Floyd, The Doors, Michael Jackson etc?

This is a sadly myopic view of music. There are many great jazz musicians that have come after John Coltrane and Bill Evans. And Michael Jackson is in your tiny pantheon of great music?

 

[wil]

I’ve been listening to that small handful of talent that you point to starting out from the 60’s and 70’s, it’s easy to write out what represents a ridiculously small list of musical talent but where do we really start or end… is your musical exposure really that limited. This just comes about perhaps with a surprising lack of accessibility or exposure… to think that musical greatness ends with just your personal preferences and such a meagre list of musical talent given all those who have been important and influential from the past or those that are still around and those yet to come.

The world of music is so much greater than you seem to indicate if you choose to open yourself up to it. I wrote out a list just of influential classical conductors since the 20th century and had over 80 just in that. Classical composers, I struggle to get a shortlist just for orchestral down to a few dozen and that’s only possible by keeping it just to important composers that I personally relate to and by then cutting out vocal and chamber music. Jazz greats… omg where to start or end… If I cull the life out of even just the blue note rostrum there’d be easily 40 or 50 important jazz musos just there, open it up to all jazz including contemporary jazz and it’ll skyrocket… and rock, alternative music, rnb, even pop. You might be happy with your personal super small list but there’s just so much more of value and greatness available.

If people needed hi end systems to connect to music the world would have given up on music many years ago. Audiophiles are a small band with super special needs. That level of need for absolute fidelity to connect to music is just for a few. Music doesn’t need to be exclusive and out of reach of the masses to be great. Most music lovers can emotionally engage with much more mundane gear. Perhaps many of us are just not a typical example of a music lover. None of that is bad but it is not really representative of reality at all. Music has survived and flourished without audiophile recordings for many generations and will continue and survive as long as culture exists and almost certainly with or without us.

One of the best posts I’ve read (on this site) regarding music. Thank you.

Maybe A.I. will kill music , but for now, I’m enjoying the ride with soul enriching music from the distant past to the present.

Audiophilia and Music aren’t mutually exclusive, but sometimes it seems that way from reading audio forums!

 

[Lagonda]

Have you heard early Pink Floyd ? I doubt they sold a lot of records back then. They still kept making records.

 

[wil]

As I said earlier it's not only about recording quality. Maybe it doesn't seem a good recording but there are other qualities we lost now make those recordings special. So, young generation is still searching and listening their father's or even grandfather's music. Young generation's interest with old rock and jazz cannot be explained by radio and concerts IMHO.

I remember reading about an intrepid 78 record collector. He believed all worthwhile music ceased to exist in 1950. I guess it’s human nature for some to want to narrow things down.

Duke Ellington: “ there are two types of music: good music, and the other kind.”

 

[wil]

Justin Bieber, Taylor Swift, spice girls…

And, what’s your point?

Do you want a list of shallow, commercially popular chart toppers from the 60’s?

 

[mtemur]

This is a sadly myopic view of music. There are many great jazz musicians that have come after John Coltrane and Bill Evans. And Michael Jackson is in your tiny pantheon of great music?

You keep saying there are great jazz musicians after Coltrane, Evans etc. And yet neither you nor @the sound of Tao have named those new musicians as good as the old ones. As well as the albums.

 

[bonzo75]

And, what’s your point?

Do you want a list of shallow, commercially popular chart toppers from the 60’s?

You digital people seem as edgy as a streamed violin

 

[wil]

Got it , pointless

 

[Robh3606]

Not to get into the rather pointless name your artists pre and post CD of equal status? The vast improvement now is accessibility. If you can't find anything to like with this many artists and sheer volume of music available just on this site alone?

It's not the music!

Bandcamp

Discover amazing music and directly support the artists who make it.

bandcamp.com

 

[hopkins]

You keep saying there are great jazz musicians after Coltrane, Evans etc. And yet neither you nor @the sound of Tao have named those new musicians as good as the old ones. As well as the albums.

Let's take things from a different perspective.

If I were to state that Beethoven was the greatest composer of all times, and that after the discovery of sound recording in the second half of the 19th century, music was never the same - then challenged you to name a greater composer than Beethoven to prove my point - would it make less sense than what you are claiming? It would be equally absurd.

Now let's move on...

 

[mtemur]

Let's take things from a different perspective.

If I were to state that Beethoven was the greatest composer of all times, and that after the discovery of sound recording in the second half of the 19th century, music was never the same - then challenged you to name a greater composer than Beethoven to prove my point - would it make less sense than what you are claiming? It would be equally absurd.

Now let's move on...

No, it only proves the quality is downslope. None of us heard Beethoven alive or witnessed the performance of his work but most probably his time was the prime of classical music. I already moved on.