Do you agree or disagree with this statement

[rbbert]

There quite a few recordings with minimal processing and somewhat minimalist technique. Most Stereophile recordings, most Chesky recordings, the (in)famous Jazz at the Pawnshop.

As I've posted before, I think one reason we all have so many differening opnions about relative worthiness of various audio components (both general type, like SS vs. tube, digital vs. analog, planar vs. cone, etc, as well as the specific components themselves) is the continued wide gulf between live sound and the sound of our systems. Most likely we all have different priorities about which specific part of that gulf we would most like to bridge (often somewhat ignoring some of the other parts of that gulf).

 

[FrantzM]

There quite a few recordings with minimal processing and somewhat minimalist technique. Most Stereophile recordings, most Chesky recordings, the (in)famous Jazz at the Pawnshop.

As I've posted before, I think one reason we all have so many differening opnions about relative worthiness of various audio components (both general type, like SS vs. tube, digital vs. analog, planar vs. cone, etc, as well as the specific components themselves) is the continued wide gulf between live sound and the sound of our systems. Most likely we all have different priorities about which specific part of that gulf we would most like to bridge (often somewhat ignoring some of the other parts of that gulf).

Agreed. Especially the parts I put an emphasis on.

 

[microstrip]

If you don't listen to live unamplified music twice a month you have no reference point to be able to judge if a system sounds like real music.

Listening to live music will change the way you appreciate sound reproduction - you will be more critical or will praise more aspects that you have particularly appreciated in live music. One think is sure - recording engineers must listen to non amplified music - they have to manipulate the recording to recreate in us the feelings we should experience in live music when listening to the recording.

I consider that listening to a lot of live music will help to have the half full glass. All the process of recreating the performance is created by suspending your disbelief in order to create the illusion of the performance. The more familiar you are with the real the better you will establish the connection with the millions of details and aspects that will help you to fill your canvas. However you system should not have critical faults - we are known to be very susceptible to some types of wrong reproduction that can spoil all enjoyment.

I listen mostly to classical and acoustical music and could get a few recordings of performances that I have been life. Curiously they are those that manage me to fool me better.

And yes, sometimes the glass can be almost full.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Percussion versus amplification /loudspeakers , those are great amps by the way , octave jubilee monos .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lmXi1y1fzs

 

[microstrip]

(...) As I've posted before, I think one reason we all have so many differening opnions about relative worthiness of various audio components (both general type, like SS vs. tube, digital vs. analog, planar vs. cone, etc, as well as the specific components themselves) is the continued wide gulf between live sound and the sound of our systems. (...)

I think that the different opinions are due to the way sound is reproduced by a stereo system, not to the continued wide gulf between live sound and the sound of our systems. The perfect stereo system should not reproduce the exact sound of the live sound in our listening room - deprived from the many non acoustic stimuli we receive during the real performance we would not engage ourselves with a facsimile of the sound.

 

[mep]

Percussion versus amplification /loudspeakers , those are great amps by the way , octave jubilee monos .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lmXi1y1fzs

Not even in the same zip code.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

If you don't listen to live unamplified music twice a month you have no reference point to be able to judge if a system sounds like real music.

I don't need a reference. I just try to enjoy what I have and I do. I already know it doesn't sound like live, so why worry about it?

 

[mep]

If you don't listen to live unamplified music twice a month you have no reference point to be able to judge if a system sounds like real music.

Says who? You? You like to start provocative threads with provocative statements don't you tater?

 

[taters]

Says who? You? You like to start provocative threads with provocative statements don't you tater?

Actually it's not my statement. I was having a conversation with a recording engineer
and he made this statement to me. I found it Interesting so I posted it to see what opinions people had about it.


btw- There are controversial threads on here all the time. That's what makes this forum Interesting.

 

[mep]

Actually it's not my statement. I was having a conversation with a recording engineer
and he made this statement to me. I found it Interesting so I posted it to see what opinions people had about it.


btw- There are controversial threads on here all the time. That's what makes this forum Interesting.

I see the mods have been busy. Perhaps it would have been good to attribute your opening statement to the engineer that made it so it didn't appear as though you were claiming it as your own.

 

[microstrip]

I don't need a reference. I just try to enjoy what I have and I do. I already know it doesn't sound like live, so why worry about it?

It is also true. Even without reference people statistically converge towards good sound.

 

[MylesBAstor]

There quite a few recordings with minimal processing and somewhat minimalist technique. Most Stereophile recordings, most Chesky recordings, the (in)famous Jazz at the Pawnshop.

As I've posted before, I think one reason we all have so many differening opnions about relative worthiness of various audio components (both general type, like SS vs. tube, digital vs. analog, planar vs. cone, etc, as well as the specific components themselves) is the continto ued wide gulf between live sound and the sound of our systems. Most likely we all have different priorities about which specific part of that gulf we would most like to bridge (often somewhat ignoring some of the other parts of that gulf).

Sorry to burst your bubble but if you think any new recording is minimally processed, you're mistaken.

You'd be amazed by what engineers can and will do with ProTools. Do you think that any record labels cares nowadays about getting it right first? Hardly, since that costs money and it's much cheaper to fix any and all issues after the event. Everyone should have the opportunity to sit down one day for an hour with award winning engineer Allen Sides and hear what goes on in the studio nowadays. And that many engineers use digital because it makes fixing the problem after the event possible -- but they prefer the sound of 30 ips tape.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Actually it's not my statement. I was having a conversation with a recording engineer
and he made this statement to me. I found it Interesting so I posted it to see what opinions people had about it.


btw- There are controversial threads on here all the time. That's what makes this forum Interesting.

So does the opposite hold true that engineers really don't know what a good recording sounds like since they listen on crappy studio monitors and gear? Or that a good recording today is a mistake rather than planned?

 

[mep]

Last night after reading what one reviewer wrote about hearing when listening to "Everybody's Got Something to Hide Except Me and My Monkey" from the Beatles White Album, I played the LP last night from my BC-13 collection. If this cut doesn't rock your house down and fool you into almost thinking that you are in the space at the time the Beatles were recording this song because it sounds so live and real, it's time to call the rubbish man and have him haul off your system and take it to the town dump.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Last night after reading what one reviewer wrote about hearing when listening to "Everybody's Got Something to Hide Except Me and My Monkey" from the Beatles White Album, I played the LP last night from my BC-13 collection. If this cut doesn't rock your house down and fool you into almost thinking that you are in the space at the time the Beatles were recording this song because it sounds so live and real, it's time to call the rubbish man and have him haul off your system and take it to the town dump.

Cue up Neil Young - Massey Hall 1971. I'm literally a half-hour drive from that venue and have been there myself several times. Listening to Neil gets me pretty darned close to that experience.

 

[mep]

Cue up Neil Young - Massey Hall 1971. I'm literally a half-hour drive from that venue and have been there myself several times. Listening to Neil gets me pretty darned close to that experience.

John-I have the LP of course and I do like it. I think the engineers left far too much audience clapping, stomping, farting, and other assorted audience noises at the end of the songs.

 

[rbbert]

Sorry to burst your bubble but if you think any new recording is minimally processed, you're mistaken.

You'd be amazed by what engineers can and will do with ProTools. Do you think that any record labels cares nowadays about getting it right first? Hardly, since that costs money and it's much cheaper to fix any and all issues after the event. Everyone should have the opportunity to sit down one day for an hour with award winning engineer Allen Sides and hear what goes on in the studio nowadays. And that many engineers use digital because it makes fixing the problem after the event possible -- but they prefer the sound of 30 ips tape.

So the detailed notes with JATP & Chesky recordings and JA's whole articles discussing Stereophile's CD production are all untrue?? Because in each case there seems to be described a recording chain from mics to finished product which contains minimal processing in either analog or digital domain.

 

[Groucho]

Why make a distinction between live music and the ambient sounds we hear every minute of our lives? I think we are all immersed in sound all the time, and can make a judgement about what sounds 'real' and what doesn't without having to go to live music events regularly. We can have a reasonable stab at extrapolating from our everyday experiences to how something we have never experienced would sound, if we were there.

Similarly, we can all make judgements about the effectiveness of CGI in films etc. without having to have actually fought in WW2, or battled with aliens.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

John-I have the LP of course and I do like it. I think the engineers left far too much audience clapping, stomping, farting, and other assorted audience noises at the end of the songs.

That's another issue....

 

[MylesBAstor]

John-I have the LP of course and I do like it. I think the engineers left far too much audience clapping, stomping, farting, and other assorted audience noises at the end of the songs.

Weren't those digitally removed?