Doctor's Orders-Part Two-The New Listening Room Of Steve Williams

[garylkoh]

Let me ask the question of you guys who are more understanding of the science.......

The Typhon is a power conditioner. When it is not plugged in, could the perception of 4 Db of increase gain being necessary to make it sound the same as with the Typhons plugged in, might this come not from what the Typhons add (increase SPL) but rather what they remove (IOW lowers the sound floor). This could quite possibly explain what we were hearing.

I always fall back to Arthur C. Clark's three laws:

1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is most certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

I went through the Shunyata website, but couldn't find any technical or scientific explanation. However, since the technology is protected by patent, I suppose that Caelin will chime in sooner or later.

 

[Steve williams]

Post 384, from Caelin......

Steve,

We have noticed, as have many customers, the perception of volume change with both the Triton and the Typhon. We believe that this effect is a result of improved dynamic range. We are having a custom state-of-the-art Audio Precision audio analyzer built for us. It will arrive sometime next month. We intend to do a lot of indirect measurements of the effects of the power products on component performance. This will be one of them.
Caelin Gabriel
President
Shunyata Research

 

[microstrip]

Like you I used to have some low level hiss but this is completely gone and the room is dead silent now

Steve,

Are you saying that without the Shunyata's Triton and Tiphon you had low level hiss and introducing them removed it?

 

[Steve williams]

Yes

The hiss was low level and improved when I changed interconnects to the amps but never disappeared. When I put the 2 Typhons in each AC duplex the hiss is gone completely.

 

[microstrip]

Yes

The hiss was low level and improved when I changed interconnects to the amps but never disappeared. When I put the 2 Typhons in each AC duplex the hiss is gone completely.

So we have a very objective parameter - hiss is an electrical signal. Now the question should be - 1. why do had hiss in your system and 2. how the Typhon removes it.
But IMHO this an usual situation - most power conditioners or power cables do not generate measurable differences in the audio band.

 

[garylkoh]

So we have a very objective parameter - hiss is an electrical signal. Now the question should be - 1. why do had hiss in your system and 2. how the Typhon removes it.
But IMHO this an usual situation - most power conditioners or power cables do not generate measurable differences in the audio band.

Was the volume control set to -4dB when listening for the hiss with the Typhons plugged in?

 

[Steve williams]

We had the Typhons plugged in for a several hour listening session and then unplugged for this experiment. So the answer is "no" as we only discovered the 4 Db change after the Typhons were removed and we reset the volume by a -4 Db increase to restore the SPL of what we thought we were hearing

 

[microstrip]

We had the Typhons plugged in for a several hour listening session and then unplugged for this experiment. So the answer is "no" as we only discovered the 4 Db change after the Typhons were removed and we reset the volume by a -4 Db increase to restore the SPL of what we thought we were hearing

Time to diagnose the "hiss" - was it like an "healthy" hiss like tube noise - soft steam - or structured and sounding "nasty"?
Anyway you can repeat this background noise test at a much higher volume level, it will be more noticeable.

 

[Bruce B]

When i was there, the hiss sounded like the 'normal' tube hiss

 

[Steve williams]

Time to diagnose the "hiss" - was it like an "healthy" hiss like tube noise - soft steam - or structured and sounding "nasty"?
Anyway you can repeat this background noise test at a much higher volume level, it will be more noticeable.

It was tube hiss and that is completely gone now

 

[Steve williams]

I thought that I would throw something out which I find absolutely fascinating regarding the Typhon. Not sure if this could be a factor in what is causing the 4 db change in our aural perception of SPL but the Typhon has virtually no measurable inductance, capacitance or resistance presumably due to the large NIC's (noise isolation chambers) inside

 

[Robh3606]

Hello Steve

If this is anything like a traditional filter you need any one or a combination of LCR to bring the noise to ground. If there is a vacuum as in nothing there then how does it work? The whole point is to make the bandwidth where the noise is look like a short. On the flip side you don't want your 60Hz sine wave, as in your power, going to ground so it looks like an open high resistance at 60 Hz. This unit is in parallel so a short is going to take your breaker out. You can't have something appear as a short at noise frequencies and then act as an open at 60 Hz without some kind of filtering going on. The only way I know of doing this requires LCR in some combination.

Even an open switch can have the resistance measured. May need a MegaOhm Metter but you can measure it. To say that the NIC's have no measureable electrical paramaters sounds more than a bit starnge.

Where's the patent so we can read it??

Rob

 

[Steve williams]

Hello Steve

If this is anything like a traditional filter you need any one or a combination of LCR to bring the noise to ground. If there is a vacuum as in nothing there then how does it work? The whole point is to make the bandwidth where the noise is look like a short. On the flip side you don't want your 60Hz sine wave, as in your power, going to ground so it looks like an open high resistance at 60 Hz. This unit is in parallel so a short is going to take your breaker out. You can't have something appear as a short at noise frequencies and then act as an open at 60 Hz without some kind of filtering going on. The only way I know of doing this requires LCR in some combination.

Even an open switch can have the resistance measured. May need a MegaOhm Metter but you can measure it. To say that the NIC's have no measureable electrical paramaters sounds more than a bit starnge.

Where's the patent so we can read it??

Rob

What I said was virtually no measureable inductance, capacitance and resistance I have no idea how they work but this is what I am told

 

[microstrip]

What I said was virtually no measureable inductance, capacitance and resistance I have no idea how they work but this is what I am told

I would interpret this statement as saying - the values of inductance, resistance and capacitance of these devices, measured at typical excitation frequencies, clearly show they do not work as conventional LCR filters. IMHO, most probably the noise isolation chambers behave as an association of many resonant filters with different frequencies, cleaning the mains - a very poor analogy, suggested just to give an idea would be something like an association of many piezzo resonators. They would clean just their resonant frequencies. But remember I am guessing, as most of us - I hope Caelin will say something if I am too wrong!

 

[CGabriel]

Steve is just relaying some information that he and I had talked about regarding the electrical characteristics of the Typhon (all Hydras that have NICs in them). For those that are industrious and curious, you can read the two patents that apply to the NICs (noise isolation chambers).

https://www.google.com/patents/US20...a=X&ei=c7niUvrNGo6GogSkxoDYBg&ved=0CFYQ6AEwBQ

https://www.google.com/patents/US65...a=X&ei=c7niUvrNGo6GogSkxoDYBg&ved=0CGsQ6AEwCA

First and foremost you have to understand that HYDRAs are NOT conventional power conditioners with run of the mill filters in them. The NIC technology is a patented and patent pending technology that is exclusive to Shunyata Research. Conventional power filters are composed of a variety of inductive and and or capacitive components. These products are designed to limit high frequency response in an effort to reduce RFI/EMI. They all have a characteristic impedance response curve (LCR) that is dependent upon the capacitive and inductive reactance of the internal filters. Unfortunately, these reactive filters are just that - reactive. So, they can have variable effects depending upon the specific component that they are connected to. This is why so many manufacturers advise customers to NOT connected their products to a power conditioner.

NICs are NOT conventional filters. They have no (easily) measured inductance or capacitance since they are neither. NICs reduce very high frequency noise by a completely different method. They use a ferroelectric compound that reduces noise by methods associated with the electric field of the noise component on the power line. This is absorbed within the compound through an E-field to thermal conversion. (noise is converted to heat) NICs do not have the negative reactive effects as conventional pi, T and L filters that are commonly used in power conditioner designs. The comments to Steve about the lack of resistance, inductance and capacitance within the TYPHON simply demonstrates that it cannot have an adverse reaction to any audio component since it has no reactance.

Microstrip has a good understanding of it except that there are no filters as such. It is more that the crystalline molecular structures within the ZrCa compound have resonant associations with certain noise frequencies such that these act as a drain or sink to the electric field noise. To use an acoustic analogy you could think of the compound as a type of room treatment that absorbs certain high frequencies. So instead of acoustic energy we are dealing with electric field energy.

 

[microstrip]

(...) NICs are NOT conventional filters. They have no (easily) measured inductance or capacitance since they are neither. NICs reduce very high frequency by a completely different method. They use a ferroelectric compound that reduces noise by methods associated with the electric field of the noise component on the power line. This is absorbed within the compound through an E-field to thermal conversion. (noise is converted to heat) NICs do not have the negative reactive effects as conventional pi, T and L filters that are commonly used in power conditioner designs. The comments to Steve about the lack of resistance, inductance and capacitance within the TYPHON simply demonstrates that it cannot have an adverse reaction to any audio component since it has no reactance.

Microstrip has a good understanding of it except that there are no filters as such. It is more that the crystalline molecular structures within the ZrCa compound have resonant associations with certain noise frequencies such that these act as a drain or sink to the electric field noise. To use an acoustic analogy you could think of the compound as a type of room treatment that absorbs certain high frequencies. So instead of acoustic energy we are dealing with electric field energy.

Thanks Caelin. I know there are no filters as I have described - it is why I am going to buy the ones you developed ..,

 

[Steve williams]

Thanks Caelin. I know there are no filters as I have described - it is why I am going to buy the ones you developed ..,

Francisco

Be prepared because I promise you there is no turning back. Welcome to the Lunatic Fringe.

 

[Steve williams]

A YouTube video might show this a whole lot better

 

[ack]

It feels like the neutral and the hot are not connected at all to each other -> no power consumption. The measurement for resistance (continuity) seems to confirm that. Is any of this true? If the two wires are not really connected and are sufficiently apart from each other, the analyzer won't be able to measure anything - it's like holding the probes far apart in the air. What is really going on inside the Typhon with the hot and the neutral?

 

[CGabriel]

Ack: Are these real questions or are they just retorical? And to whom are you addressing them?