Doctor's Orders-Part Two-The New Listening Room Of Steve Williams

[JackD201]

So at this point, we've gone beyond challenging others to listen to these cables, and it's now a provocation. I will do my best to listen to them, but I have to also say that, if they don't perform better than my MIT, then I will surely have lost all respect for VS.


So who do I contact to audition these cables? I hope I am not making any new enemies...

Well, we've been using these for years and you never saw us shilling did you? Now if you feel provoked I feel we as users and owners are being accused because we were the ones posting our impressions here, on a member's page no less, started by a member. I've been the most low key and I'm the one with a financial interest! Fine disregard mine but what? Robert's, Steve's, Joe's, Sam's and violetmachan's impressions are bull since they don't match yours? If by some miracle you do prefer them more then gee whiz they aren't liars after all? Wow ack, I've always admired how adventurous you are but that post well, I do not admire at all.

 

[PeterA]

I wonder if perhaps this conversation should be moved into its own thread and away from Steve's system thread.

 

[adyc]

I really do not understand the logic here. If I do not like MIT cable, I lost respect of Spectral Audio??

 

[JackD201]

That's Steve's call but Steve asked for our inputs. Like I said we've been using these for years and we never peppered other threads with MB namedrop posts. If you see mentions they are in our own threads. We didn't do it on Audio Circle and we surely didn't do it here. I just don't like the impression that we're drum beating when history shows we've done no such thing. These cables may be new to most but they are NOT new to us.

 

[ack]

Well, we've been using these for years and you never saw us shilling did you? Now if you feel provoked I feel we as users and owners are being accused because we were the ones posting our impressions here, on a member's page no less, started by a member. I've been the most low key and I'm the one with a financial interest! Fine disregard mine but what? Robert's, Steve's, Joe's, Sam's and violetmachan's impressions are bull since they don't match yours? If by some miracle you do prefer them more then gee whiz they aren't liars after all? Wow ack, I've always admired how adventurous you are but that post well, I do not admire at all.

remember the old adage about believing one's ears. It applies here. Why are you defensive? The claims here are way over the top. So show me.

 

[ack]

I really do not understand the logic here. If I do not like MIT cable, I lost respect of Spectral Audio??

simple; in 30+ years I have never seen anyone else claim a product revolutionary.

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . . the secret sauce of it all is a pair of Tortuga passive LDR (light dependent resistor) controllers. One, the LDRxB serves as the main controller with the ability to switch inputs and toggle the absolute phase (via remote) along with another, the LDR1B ahead of the Spectrons that manages level matching. Both controllers have the ability to select source input impedance from 2k to 200k, again from the listening position. Suffice it to say that I'm extremely happy with the Tortugas. They're the first and only passive controllers that have all the bass power and punch that you would want and that handle the signal passed to/from the MB Ultra ICs with the highest fidelity. . . .

Robert, have you ever compared directly the Tortuga attenuators to simple discrete resistor attenuators, such as the Electronic Visionary Systems Ultimate Attenuators (which were popular about 20 years ago)?

Thank you.

 

[Steve Williams]

So at this point, we've gone beyond challenging others to listen to these cables, and it's now a provocation. I will do my best to listen to them, but I have to also say that, if they don't perform better than my MIT, then I will surely have lost all respect for VS.

There are quite a few claims here that make me more skeptical than ever:

1) What's the association with CERN? I only heard "aerospace". Aerospace what... what are the requirements there and where do they overlap with audio
2) "Revolutionary product"
3) Takes a year for them to break in
4) Sensitive to moving them around
5) Still not clear of what cables they replaced on the various owners' systems. I know Steve mentioned Valhalla, but I also know he was using Transparent and/or Shunyata for signal, at some point, though I have lost track
6) Steve told me he had to turn the volume way down with the MB cables, but if he's using Transparent and Shunyata then that's understandable, and we have discussed the shortcomings of these cables
7) The Oracle MITs offer an exceptional low noise floor with tremendous amount of detail, as is befit to Spectral equipment
8) The prices are claimed to be "stratospheric", yet there is no information about that, nada

So who do I contact to audition these cables? I hope I am not making any new enemies...

Tasos

I would agree that the difference in gain that I was experiencing was due not only to the new MB cables but in all likelihood a restriction at the top and bottom ends of the cable I removed was also a contributing factor.

Having said that there seems to be complete unanimity by members here who own this cable as to what they are hearing.

I suggest you contact Leif however with your use of Spectral in your system you are limited by the use of downstream cable (MIT) that must be used for any signal coming in or out of your amp

As for me all I can say is that these cables have been in my system for a week now and I won't let Leif take them out until I get mine. So far I have ordered an Ultra SC which I am told takes a month to get.

Finally my interest in these cables was generated by my hearing Jack and Jim's systems in Manila. Jack's room was superb on a much smaller scale (yet his room is still huge) than brother Jim's which I have stated here as the best sound system I have ever heard. It was the most natural realistic sound system I've ever heard. The common denominator short of speaker brand was the use of MB cable throughout their systems. When I researched it, it was apparent that most (if not all users) had VSA. It was me who reached out to Leif to see what benefit if any would be gleaned in my system. He was interested as well because he likes Wilson speakers but at shows they never sounded good because of the use of MIT or Transparent cables.

As far as your results or others all I can say is that you have nothing to lose. However if you hear what I heard I think you are in for a real treat after you pinch yourself and ask "what was that I just heard?"

 

[Steve Williams]

I wonder if perhaps this conversation should be moved into its own thread and away from Steve's system thread.

That's Steve's call but Steve asked for our inputs. Like I said we've been using these for years and we never peppered other threads with MB namedrop posts. If you see mentions they are in our own threads. We didn't do it on Audio Circle and we surely didn't do it here. I just don't like the impression that we're drum beating when history shows we've done no such thing. These cables may be new to most but they are NOT new to us.

I must admit that I put the experiences I had with this cable in my system blog as I was trying to illustrate what they did in my system. I see however that the topic has taken on a new life and as a result I think it would be better served if we open a new thread in the cable forum for discussion.

 

[PeterA]

I must admit that I put the experiences I had with this cable in my system blog as I was trying to illustrate what they did in my system. I see however that the topic has taken on a new life and as a result I think it would be better served if we open a new thread in the cable forum for discussion.

Steve, I think that makes sense. Thank you. It will be easier to reference the information in the future.

 

[Steve Williams]

I agree Peter. My desires to chronicle what I heard in my system with this cable has grown leaps and bounds and for the sake of my being accused by the Hyperbole Police re my comments about this cable any further MB Cable comments should be started in a new thread in the cable subforum.

 

[ack]

Tasos

I would agree that the difference in gain that I was experiencing was due not only to the new MB cables but in all likelihood a restriction at the top and bottom ends of the cable I removed was also a contributing factor.

Having said that there seems to be complete unanimity by members here who own this cable as to what they are hearing.

I suggest you contact Leif however with your use of Spectral in your system you are limited by the use of downstream cable (MIT) that must be used for any signal coming in or out of your amp

As for me all I can say is that these cables have been in my system for a week now and I won't let Leif take them out until I get mine. So far I have ordered an Ultra SC which I am told takes a month to get.

Finally my interest in these cables was generated by my hearing Jack and Jim's systems in Manila. Jack's room was superb on a much smaller scale (yet his room is still huge) than brother Jim's which I have stated here as the best sound system I have ever heard. It was the most natural realistic sound system I've ever heard. The common denominator short of speaker brand was the use of MB cable throughout their systems. When I researched it, it was apparent that most (if not all users) had VSA. It was me who reached out to Leif to see what benefit if any would be gleaned in my system. He was interested as well because he likes Wilson speakers but at shows they never sounded good because of the use of MIT or Transparent cables.

As far as your results or others all I can say is that you have nothing to lose. However if you hear what I heard I think you are in for a real treat after you pinch yourself and ask "what was that I just heard?"

I am ready for the challenge Steve. As far as Spectral goes, forget it, I know how the amps behave w/o MIT cables and all I have to do is not push them hard - they will just run hotter and I have fans (some seen on my system thread's main picture). So realistically, no, I am not limited by anything or anyone, and the risk is all mine. Again, the claims here are so over the top that I trust but want to verify. More than that, I have made zero claims about the cables, only raised serious concerns with what's been said and claimed. In the past, some have been heavily criticized for resorting to measurements and such in an attempt to counter others' arguments, and the response is to "go listen and tell us you think". Well, I want to listen and hear for myself - so Jack's response doesn't come across really well.

 

[microstrip]

simple; in 30+ years I have never seen anyone else claim a product revolutionary.

Well, using google I found a dozen such claims just in WBF in two minutes - even the conservative Harman introduced "Revolutionary QuantumLogic™ Surround Technology"!

IMHO, we can dislike the excessive or absurd claims of marketing departments, but the enthusiasm of distributors and owners of good products is a natural and welcome aspect of audio forums. My only regret is that all the reported systems using these cables show some common traits - it would be great to have opinions of users of completely different systems.

 

[es347]

..Jack's response was totally appropriate whereas your's was not

 

[Steve Williams]

well before feathers get ruffled I have to say that the way this developed on my system blog was totally unexpected by members. For the past week I have been totally immersed in my system as I am hearing detail that I have never before heard. I was excited and in my zeal this has taken on a new life. I have no vested interest in this cable ( I wish I did as it is so expensive) but rather I wanted to share with members my experiences. Jack was not the least bit complicit and the comments by other MB owners here came as a complete surprise to me. At the very least these members' comments seemed to vindicate me and my thoughts about this cable as I wanted to share the enthusiasm with members. We all know how controversial cable topics are. I also swore to myself that I would never go down this rabbit hole again but having done such, I find my system sounds totally different than what I have been used to hearing. More than anything else however IMO these are the most neutral cables I have ever auditioned.

So as a request if there are further MB questions or comments that are not related to my system I would suggest a new thread in the cable subforum

TIA

 

[JackD201]

remember the old adage about believing one's ears. It applies here. Why are you defensive? The claims here are way over the top. So show me.

I don't have to show you anything Ack. It's not a friggin' contest. You are attempting to make it one it seems. I'm telling you point black I don't want any part of that. You will like what you like and it is the same for me and everybody else. You don't have to believe what I or anybody else here says we hear. Just don't assume that it is our duty to prove our personal impressions to anybody that downright demands it. I'm not talking about marketing copy. Every company attempts to differentiate itself. I said before I hardly ever talk about it because it's easier to show than to tell. Mullard88 lives 5 minutes away from me and he's been to my place many times. While we've discussed them over the years, he never asked to borrow them so I never sent him a set to try until he eventually did. Now if you were in my area and I felt you were sincere instead of having the feeling that all you want to do is have a cock fight, then I would entrust what does amount to a significant amount of money to your care. I would be worried not if you like them or not. We all like different things. I'd be more worried that something might happen to your Spectral amps because they supposedly would be safer with the networks MIT provides. Other than that it might actually be fun. You however have sucked the fun out of this discussion when I seriously doubt that you had anything but skepticism towards your fellow members to anchor your curiosity on.

 

[ack]

I don't have to show you anything Ack. It's not a friggin' contest. You are attempting to make it one it seems. I'm telling you point black I don't want any part of that. You will like what you like and it is the same for me and everybody else. You don't have to believe what I or anybody else here says we hear. Just don't assume that it is our duty to prove our personal impressions to anybody that downright demands it. I'm not talking about marketing copy. Every company attempts to differentiate itself. I said before I hardly ever talk about it because it's easier to show than to tell. Mullard88 lives 5 minutes away from me and he's been to my place many times. While we've discussed them over the years, he never asked to borrow them so I never sent him a set to try until he eventually did. Now if you were in my area and I felt you were sincere instead of having the feeling that all you want to do is have a cock fight, then I would entrust what does amount to a significant amount of money to your care. I would be worried not if you like them or not. We all like different things. I'd be more worried that something might happen to your Spectral amps because they supposedly would be safer with the networks MIT provides. Other than that it might actually be fun. You however have sucked the fun out of this discussion when I seriously doubt that you had anything but skepticism towards your fellow members to anchor your curiosity on.

This is nothing but a personal attack, Jack. Again, as always, I stick to the point and discuss just that: the cables, and the claims people make. You just veered. I don't attack anyone, Jack, but I do raise serious concerns when appropriate. And in your own words "it's easier to show than to tell", but no, no one has to show me anything. OK...

 

[JackD201]

Sorry Steve I was going to let this one go.

Tasos, what claims have we made? Please at least try to distinguish between personal impressions and claims. maybe YOU have the mastery of technical english to explain away what you here. Well, when it comes to cables not many do, myself included. Now in my book, if you question what I say I perceive and demand proof on your terms, in language you can accept, THAT is a personal attack. Why because this is something neither of us have a right to do. If I actually made a claim that it would be God's gift to all mankind, you included, that would be another matter. The way I see it, you questioned my integrity and I do not take that lightly. Hey maybe It's late at night, I'm tired so I'm being cranky about this. I'll just ask you straight up. Are you questioning our honesty with regards to what we have shared here or not? That is the only thing that has gotten me riled up anyway.

Steve, now you know why I HATE talking about cables!

 

[ack]

Sorry Steve I was going to let this one go.

Tasos, what claims have we made? Please at least try to distinguish between personal impressions and claims. maybe YOU have the mastery of technical english to explain away what you here. Well, when it comes to cables not many do, myself included. Now in my book, if you question what I say I perceive and demand proof on your terms, in language you can accept, THAT is a personal attack. Why because this is something neither of us have a right to do. If I actually made a claim that it would be God's gift to all mankind, you included, that would be another matter. The way I see it, you questioned my integrity and I do not take that lightly. Hey maybe It's late at night, I'm tired so I'm being cranky about this. I'll just ask you straight up. Are you questioning our honesty with regards to what we have shared here or not? That is the only thing that has gotten me riled up anyway.

Steve, now you know why I HATE talking about cables!

I beg your pardon, Jack. When I question one's integrity, I do it by name. I did not mention you or anyone else by name in my challenge, but then you jumped in and expressed offense at my challenge (and I raised it when every onwer's comments collectively eventually crossed over my threshold and into the "provocative"). You continue to be defensive. But to be quite honest, eventually, if and when you or anyone else starts attacking me, yes, it will probably get to that, too, but hasn't yet. Therefore, no, I am not questioning anyone's honesty or integrity, but neither am I taking things for granted, no matter how many people say the same thing - "show me" means the claims are too good to be true, and in this case, some are too hazy as well (e.g. on the cables' alloys). But perhaps this has gone on for too long.

 

[Steve Williams]

It has gone on too long

Tasos et al......


!. start a new MB thread in the cable subform

2. Call Leif at VSA and express interest in a demo of the cable. Once done we can all talk on an equal footing

None of the hyperbole has come from Jack but rather from me and other members who own the cable