Does Magico have a "house sound", and if so, how would you describe it?

[Rhapsody]

Hi Bob,
Thanks. Very interesting. Yeah, I am curious if this is specific to your clientele or whether it's a general trend in the industry.

We also hear about vinyl "coming back". But my gut is telling me that "Dad" or "Grandpa" buying this expensive gear is tired, fat, lazy, got bad knees or bad hips, and doesn't want to get up from his chair. Other than to grab his phone or ipad from the charger, so he can tap on the Roon playlist.

The good news is that people are interested in "good sound". Any young people or all alter cockers?

I believe every dealer is different, even in the same geographic territory.

I have customers in all age groups. From 20's to 90's, yes I have 3 customers in their 90s and they still buy something occasionally.

The 70+ group do not purchase all that much in general. I would say 75% of my sales are to customers between 40-60, then another 15% in their 30's with the 5% on both ends of the curve.

I sell a lot of Magico M2/M3 with a server/streaming and a Devialet. Sounds great, easy to place in rooms, completely hassle free.

Then the more exotic systems are leading with Alsyvox, Diesis or Bayz and all types of electronics/sources with these systems.

 

[caesar]

Jadis are excellent amplifiers , I went though some of them. But curiously IMHO the best of the brand I owned was the JP80 preamplifer - I could happily live with a JP80 and a pair of JA200's, I have a feeling they would sound very good with the Q7mk2 ...

Jadis ignored market trends - for example they did not have remotes for the preamplifiers, no easy adjustments of bias in amplifiers, obliging people to buy very expensive matched tube sets for their equipment, no handles to help moving them. Also they went though several distribution problems in several countries, something that severely affects brand reputation. There is no consistent discourse or technical information about the brand online from the factory - just rumors. See what happened with the last JA 200 Stereophile review ...

IMHO when a brand keeps the same model designations for 40 years the evolution must be very transparent. Unfortunately no one knows seems to know exactly what are the different mk's of Jadis models along the years.

Just to end the JA200 sounded delicious in vintage Soundlab A1's. Colored, the bass was too full and the combination lacked articulation, but a real pleasure to listen.

Hi Microstrip,
I don't doubt one bit that other than CAT amps, Jadis could Magico Q sound good.

A big problem for Jadis is that they need to design for Wilson. And getting it to non-analytical reviewers.

They gave a review sample of JA200s to Stereophile's Victor Sirinous, and being the typical Wilson-first Stereophile reviewer, he shat all over the JA200s - "colored", boring, ...". Stereophile equally fukked over Bricasti amps and Aqua Fina DAC - anything that's not Wilson - D'Agostino - dCS - goes to an early grave.

And I agree with you on the need for better marketing and the remote control.

 

[caesar]

I believe every dealer is different, even in the same geographic territory.

I have customers in all age groups. From 20's to 90's, yes I have 3 customers in their 90s and they still buy something occasionally.

The 70+ group do not purchase all that much in general. I would say 75% of my sales are to customers between 40-60, then another 15% in their 30's with the 5% on both ends of the curve.

I sell a lot of Magico M2/M3 with a server/streaming and a Devialet. Sounds great, easy to place in rooms, completely hassle free.

Then the more exotic systems are leading with Alsyvox, Diesis or Bayz and all types of electronics/sources with these systems.

Truly is fascinating. Thanks for sharing! Are you Kondo customers audiophiles with horn speakers or just collectors who enjoy luxury items?

 

[PeterA]

Yeah, we are getting into personal preference territory - which kind of is this hobby and 75% of all posts on web-boards and arguments, but it's hard to find good SS... But there is a handful of exceptions: Symphonic Line, Gryphon, Luxman (on easy to drive speakers), nothing else jumps into mind immediately... slim pickings.

Caesar, is this post getting into preference territory, or does it belong in the other 25% of all posts on web-boards?

 

[Rhapsody]

Truly is fascinating. Thanks for sharing! Are you Kondo customers audiophiles with horn speakers or just collectors who enjoy luxury items?

My Kondo customers ALL have vinyl. They are much more music lovers than equipment aficianodos. Most do not participate in forums. All over the board with what speakers they have-. ie, Alsyvox, Kaiser, Diesis, Avantgarde, OMA, several more I'm not remembering. The owners that I have and know don't really consider the Kondo gear "luxury" items. It's just their audio system, just like Lamm, Wavac, Aries Cerat would think of their systems.

 

[cannata]

Hi Cannata,
For those of us that are not technical, can you please explain why being "reasonably smooth and balanced on and off-axis" is important. Isn't this a primarily solitary hobby, with our seat firmly planted in the sweet spot?

Do you really want to know? If so, Magico has wrote this especially for you:
https://www.magicoaudio.com/news/magico-news-for-fall-2019

Go down to: "Why We Do the Things We Do"

 

[bonzo75]

"Why We Do the Things We Do"

Is this a confession

 

[PeterA]

Do you really want to know? If so, Magico has wrote this especially for you:
https://www.magicoaudio.com/news/magico-news-for-fall-2019

Go down to: "Why We Do the Things We Do"

I think it has to do with the spectral balance of direct sound and reflected sound. Thanks for this post. I read that a few months ago. The current Magico newsletter about driver technology and pistonic movement is also fascinating.

 

[cannata]

I think it has to do with the spectral balance of direct sound and reflected sound. Thanks for this post. I read that a few months ago. The current Magico newsletter about driver technology and pistonic movement is also fascinating.

It is basically a summation of Dr. Floyd Tolle work.
Another recent good read: https://www.soundstagesolo.com/index.php/features/246-the-biggest-lie-in-audio

 

[totaldac]

I have a pair of Magico M6's for one and a half year now.
When I drove them using a 80W triode push pull amplifier I have some strange sound in midrange. I found that the relatively high output impedance of the amplifier made a wrong matching with the rather low and un-even impedance of the M6's. Yes the M6's difficulty is it impedance far before its efficiency, because its efficiency is not bad at all.
So I developed an impedance matching box made to be connected in parallel to the speaker binding posts. It makes the speaker impedance not lower but much more flat. So it prevents from getting the curve of the speaker impedance copied into the frequency response (easily visible on the frequency response). This clearly improved the sound of the M6's when driven by this triode amplifier.
More surprising, this impedance matching box also improves the sound even with all transistors amplifiers I tried although the effect on the frequency response was not really visible (because the output impedance of these amplifiers is low).
This may be because the load seen by the amplifier is very different in each frequency range. The distorsion of the amplifiers are also different on a 2.5ohm load or on a 8ohm load for example.

I also made another impedance matching box for a Vivid Audio Giya, with the same result.

About Magico sound, I would say the M6 sound clearly different than a speakers made of paper cones, and people may prefer one or the other.

 

[Rhapsody]

I would love to have some conversation with those that have heard the A5's. Once one hears the A5s my perception is that their Magico perspective will change. Not saying there is anything wrong with the existing Magico speakers house sound, BUT imho the A5 is an inflection point for Magico. Time will tell as it does with all things......

 

[cjf]

Interesting read this thread has been.

Being an S3 MkI owner I feel the Magico sound is hard to find or notice as they are more like microscopes for everything that comes before them in the source or connectivity chain. Hearing differences in "tweaks" comes forward fairly quickly, IME.

I think this is what ultimately drove me towards buying them after careful comparisons of similar priced speakers back when I was shopping. I felt having a dead neutral speaker was the best choice long term and I could add "Flavor" later, if needed.

Some other brands I auditioned sounded more exciting/impressive when I heard them but I ended up taking the gamble that the more exciting speaker was going to be less flexible later on so I went with the neutral one. I'm glad I did!

I would fully agree with those who mentioned their difficultly to drive behaviors and that they require a well sorted and robust amp to wrangle them in a bit. Class D need not apply (Trust me, I've tried).

But with the right amp, cable combo to add some seasoning (if you feel so inclined) in addition to a few well integrated subs I think they can sound any way the owner wants which I believe is made easier by their original inherent neutrality to start with (ie..little to no sound signature)

I'm a fan of the music they make in my room

 

[TLi]

I heard A5 in the dealer showroom. The impression was very good. It can easily beats other speakers at its price point or some more.

Yes, A5 does have the Magico house sound, ie very detailed and neutral.

I used M Project for 3 years before switching to M6 and have listened to virtually all Magico models except Ultimate 3. The house sound changes with time and the cabinet material. A5 has the midrange of M6 but not the extension of both ends as M2 and M6.

 

[Alpinist]

I heard A5 in the dealer showroom. The impression was very good. It can easily beats other speakers at its price point or some more.

Yes, A5 does have the Magico house sound, ie very detailed and neutral.

I used M Project for 3 years before switching to M6 and have listened to virtually all Magico models except Ultimate 3. The house sound changes with time and the cabinet material. A5 has the midrange of M6 but not the extension of both ends as M2 and M6.View attachment 67747View attachment 67748

Does the A5 have better midrange than the M2 and M3?

Ken

 

[PeterA]

I heard A5 in the dealer showroom. The impression was very good. It can easily beats other speakers at its price point or some more.

Yes, A5 does have the Magico house sound, ie very detailed and neutral.

I used M Project for 3 years before switching to M6 and have listened to virtually all Magico models except Ultimate 3. The house sound changes with time and the cabinet material. A5 has the midrange of M6 but not the extension of both ends as M2 and M6.

Congratulations TLi on the M6. I am very familiar with the M Project as it belongs to a good friend. I have also heard the M2 and M3 but not the A5. Are you saying that you think the M2 has great low frequency extension than the A5? That would surprise me given the drivers. Very interesting.

 

[TLi]

Congratulations TLi on the M6. I am very familiar with the M Project as it belongs to a good friend. I have also heard the M2 and M3 but not the A5. Are you saying that you think the M2 has great low frequency extension than the A5? That would surprise me given the drivers. Very interesting.

M2 certainly has stronger bass and deeper low frequency extension than A5. I know it sounds odd, it may be due to the crossover design. The cabinet also contributes. A5 has a slightly boxy bass, not as clean and accurate as M2.

M2 projects a sonic picture like a large speaker, while A5 can't.

M2 and M3 are quite different speakers. M3 has a tropical sound of Q series, analytical and clean, but can be a little dry and harsh. M2 and M6 are a lot warmer due to the carbon fibre cabinet and they repesent the new house sound of Magico. I am sure M9 will follow the same trend.

As for the midrange, A5 is really good probably due to the new driver. It is accurate but not dry, but I can't tell if it is better than M2 and M3.

 

[KPC]

Yes - Magico has a house sound
No - my inexperience cannot adequately describe it beyond box store comparisons

My audio acuity can generally recognize the Magico house sound. I’ll describe the context so hopefully you’ll understand.

Four years ago I’d started researching my bucket list first high-end audio system and last fall started accumulating components. My strategy was to listen to the best speakers I can, find the sound that I liked, then try to recreate that sound within my budget by maximizing the best bang/buck while minimizing sound quality loss. I’ve purchased most of my components used when possible.

So I demoed as many speakers as I could, at dealers and audio shows. There were many great sounding speakers, but the brands that consistently (not 100%, Magicos only ok as last RMAF) “touched my soul” were Magico and YG. I couldn’t afford YG top speakers, and their lower models seemed (probably based on gut fluff) like a significant step downwards in Sonics. So Magico was my primary target.

By “touched my soul” I mean like the type of song that grabs your attention, you get lost in it, it surrounds you, it envelopes you, you can feel it with you, like in your chest, you’re lost in a sea of music...maybe I got a bad batch of mushrooms...

I’ve demo Magicos from A3 to M6 at their factory. The first Magico speaker I liked was the S5m2. The S3 sounded great but I didn’t like the idea of bass reduction vs the S5. The A3 sounded like a lighter weight Magico version. I was leaning towards a used S5m2, or maybe show how if the stars align, and if I could slyly get it by my wife and kids (they’re bigger now and can hurt me: ), then maybe I can somehow swing a used M3.

After reading @Rhapsody glowing review of the A5, it’s my final choice for my first (well maybe second- curiosity drove me to purchased a pair of KEF LS50s and had the innards modified by someone in ebay, still boxed) high-end speaker. I’m anticipating serious bass energy from those 3 bass units. No matter how I slice it, it’s the best bang/buck performance I can get and it’s with a brand I highly favor. What a blessing!

@Rhapsody, I noticed you’re broken down your customer by age, are you offering age discounts? (just a joke, didn’t want you to squirm...much)
I in a conundrum. I want to reward @Rhapsody for convincing me that the A5 was my final choice....but.... he’s on the east coast and I’m on the west - long distance relationship/support a bad idea?, I know another local Magico dealer working out of his home who in the past offered a discount, my triplets are starting college...
(ok, now you can squirm)

So once again yes, for me there is a Magico house sound

 

[Rhapsody]

Yes - Magico has a house sound
No - my inexperience cannot adequately describe it beyond box store comparisons

My audio acuity can generally recognize the Magico house sound. I’ll describe the context so hopefully you’ll understand.

Four years ago I’d started researching my bucket list first high-end audio system and last fall started accumulating components. My strategy was to listen to the best speakers I can, find the sound that I liked, then try to recreate that sound within my budget by maximizing the best bang/buck while minimizing sound quality loss. I’ve purchased most of my components used when possible.

So I demoed as many speakers as I could, at dealers and audio shows. There were many great sounding speakers, but the brands that consistently (not 100%, Magicos only ok as last RMAF) “touched my soul” were Magico and YG. I couldn’t afford YG top speakers, and their lower models seemed (probably based on gut fluff) like a significant step downwards in Sonics. So Magico was my primary target.

By “touched my soul” I mean like the type of song that grabs your attention, you get lost in it, it surrounds you, it envelopes you, you can feel it with you, like in your chest, you’re lost in a sea of music...maybe I got a bad batch of mushrooms...

I’ve demo Magicos from A3 to M6 at their factory. The first Magico speaker I liked was the S5m2. The S3 sounded great but I didn’t like the idea of bass reduction vs the S5. The A3 sounded like a lighter weight Magico version. I was leaning towards a used S5m2, or maybe show how if the stars align, and if I could slyly get it by my wife and kids (they’re bigger now and can hurt me: ), then maybe I can somehow swing a used M3.

After reading @Rhapsody glowing review of the A5, it’s my final choice for my first (well maybe second- curiosity drove me to purchased a pair of KEF LS50s and had the innards modified by someone in ebay, still boxed) high-end speaker. I’m anticipating serious bass energy from those 3 bass units. No matter how I slice it, it’s the best bang/buck performance I can get and it’s with a brand I highly favor. What a blessing!

@Rhapsody, I noticed you’re broken down your customer by age, are you offering age discounts? (just a joke, didn’t want you to squirm...much)
I in a conundrum. I want to reward @Rhapsody for convincing me that the A5 was my final choice....but.... he’s on the east coast and I’m on the west - long distance relationship/support a bad idea?, I know another local Magico dealer working out of his home who in the past offered a discount, my triplets are starting college...
(ok, now you can squirm)

So once again yes, for me there is a Magico house sound

Always best to deal with a local dealer when possible.

 

[KPC]

@Rhapsody- thanks for your honest answer. I a big believer in compensating for services rendered, but can really (badly) use the advice of a local dealer. I feel uncomfortable getting dealers advice, then purchasing elsewhere - reeks of dishonesty. But if I’m a potential customer, then all bets are off. A dealer can help this newbie through the quagmire of cartridge setup tools- WallySkater, Analog Magik, SmartTractor, Fotzgometer, usb Digital microscopes, etc., as I plan to try out/purchase a variety of cartridges. Perhaps this should have been a PM - still learning the ropes (interesting phrase, I wonder the origin)

 

[spiritofmusic]

Learning the ropes needed to prevent being on the ropes.