It’s a very well known fact that audiophiles always like their systems no matter how superior the demoed setup is. Opposite is almost unheard of.
DS Audio Grand Master Extreme
- Thread starter TLi
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A fact? And "well known," no less? I don't assume this is due entirely to intellectual dishonesty or to cognitive dissonance, which I think is your implication. (Forgive me if I am incorrect.)
Cost issues and space issues aside, audiophiles typically build systems to achieve the particular sonic cues which idiosyncratically allow each audiophile to achieve his/her sonic objective.
Since a demo system likely is not focusing conscientiously on achieving the particular sonic cue subjectively selected and focused on by any particular audiophile, it makes some sense that when that audiophile goes home he/she finds his/her system to be more convincing -- at least based on that particular sonic cue -- even if the demoed system is superior in other sonic attributes.
Actually I’ve preferred demos many times over the last 45 years. That’s how I got to my present system.
you will see a large number of comments, starting with Marc’s, where the audiophile auditioned a system, came home and was either satisfied, or preferred, his. Not denying he didn’t but often can be out of familiarity. That said the lambda is the most musical of the Lyra carts and the first Lyra I preferred, and the DS IME is digital so I am inclined to believing another johnson’s report as compared to the many other Johnsons who prefer their own systems
Thank you for the observation but, not to be annoying, quite ironic on WBF.
I find Another Johnson's report very understandable, and persuasive myself. (I respect greatly the DS optical cartridges, and I prefer them to several moving coil cartridges, but I don't love them.)
It’s rarely because of dishonesty, mostly because of feeling successful and smarter. I never heard anybody complaining his/her system being too expensive for it’s sound. Oppositely everyone says it’s punching way above it’s weight, sounds 2X or 3X better etc. If everyone’s system is 2X better for it’s price tag then who’s buying overrated products?
Satisfaction of thinking that you achieved a better sounding system at home 1/3 price of the system you’re demoing makes you feel smarter compared to other audiophiles. Due to subjective nature of this hobby it’s impossible to measure better sound. If it would have been like racing cars we would put systems on a race track and find out which is better precisely. But it isn’t.
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he was being polite, just telling you non controversially that audiophiles are biased towards their own system. No matter how much it costs, it punches way above its weight and was a smart choice
I understand. My focus here has been to point out that there are legitimate reasons relating to the process by which one chooses one's components basic on the particular sonic cues one is trying to cultivate that audiophiles are biased towards their own systems.
I respect your time and experience, and I would really enjoy hearing your system! My personal reference is live unamplified music, not anything coming from a stereo system. But as far as stereos go, my reference is 1/2 inch 30 IPS R2R - well mastered and as close to the source material as possible. That being said I REALLY like what the DS Audio components do with vinyl. So much so that I'm virtually 100% vinyl listening at this point (though I have an in-coming R2R deck next month that *should* change that). DS Audio sounds excellent in comparison to my R2R listening, though certainly not equivalent as I find well-sourced R2R without peer in a stereo (noting very limited source selection). I have the DS GM EX on order as an upgrade to by GM cartridge, and it's a leap of faith as I haven't heard it yet. FWIW I don't sense any "sweetness" in the GM cartridge to my ears in my system, as in zero.
The sweetness could be attributed to anything. The speakers, interconnects, room, etc. It could easily be an artifact of that particular system. It was not a criticism. And I did not intend to tag DS with that descriptor.
In general, it wasn’t my intention to criticize the DS system. I can see why someone else might be attracted to it. DS does provide an “audiophile worthy” experience.
FWIW, I did not go to audition the DS gear. The audition was just a serendipitous byproduct of my visit to pick up a new phono cartridge. The sales staff really wanted me to hear it. I’m known to be influenced by demos and to buy stuff.
Had I fallen in love with DS, my history is that I would be drawn toward it, like a moth to a flame. The fact that it’s not for me is pretty much irrelevant to others. I’m not a reviewer and would not have said as much as I did had I not been asked.
In general, it wasn’t my intention to criticize the DS system. I can see why someone else might be attracted to it. DS does provide an “audiophile worthy” experience.
FWIW, I did not go to audition the DS gear. The audition was just a serendipitous byproduct of my visit to pick up a new phono cartridge. The sales staff really wanted me to hear it. I’m known to be influenced by demos and to buy stuff.
Had I fallen in love with DS, my history is that I would be drawn toward it, like a moth to a flame. The fact that it’s not for me is pretty much irrelevant to others. I’m not a reviewer and would not have said as much as I did had I not been asked.
Has anyone compared the DS GM or GM EX with the Soundsmith Strain Gauge? I have the latter (on an AMG turntable with their 12" turbo arm) and find the resolution, intonation, sound stage, etc truly superb, but have never been able to do a direct comparison. Thanks
I’ve been using Lyra cartridges for 5+ years, and will continue. I think I made it quite clear in posts above that I don’t think that DS (through the $60k level) is an upgrade.
Not annoying at all and apologies for my delayed response.
I moved from the second tier to the top tier EMM (DS-EQ1) and from the DS-003 cartridge to the grandmaster. At each stage, the thing that I loved about the DSAudio was the lower noise floor (yes, almost CD like on a clean well preserved album) and the "speed" of the cartridge. It just seems to be more precise to my ear than my previous MM/MC cartridges. The Grandmaster EX provided a huge jump in that speed and resulting resolution and a somewhat bigger soundstage, without losing the overall coherence of the presentation. E.g., on jazz recordings, I better appreciate the nuance of the drums and cymbals (and everything) as there is just so much more detail provided - without it sounding analytical, etc. I did not hear a lowering of the noise floor with the EX, but I do think the optical system provides a lower noise floor inherently. Unlike one of the comments above, I think it gives you the speed and some of the lower noise floor of digital, without otherwise sounding digital - best of both worlds.
To my ear, and these sorts of statements are inherently subjective, it is a quite big jump from the grandmaster and justified the extra expense (I got full credit for my grandmaster with my dealer). I tested it at home on my system (against the grandmaster) and it wasn't close - I knew I would buy it (despite my best efforts to avoid doing so) by the end of the first side of vinyl.
Hope that helps. Some may not like the closed nature of the DSA ecosystem, but that's OK with me for now, and I really love the sound.
Kedar they don’t sound digital I thought this too.
I can’t say lower models but the one just below top is very good. Steve on here has one on the sakora table. I heard ds at shows and hated them. Until dr vinyl had a setup at axpona
my thinking it was something in the other rooms
One was boulder amp preamp and Sonos FABER speakers
but even when I asked them to play vinyl on table non ds audio it was the same hard sound.
at axpona same table in two rooms one ds audio and the other was doshi audio.
Ina direct compare its analog to my ears and dr vinyl has commented below to confirm. But top analog sounding no doubt
My
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I did direct compare with MSL and the master. The MSL was going through an Allnic H8000 phono. Two others (one being a lower model) were compared to the digital. Depends what LPs you are using for the audition as well
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