Entreq Tellus grounding

[Barry2013]

Hi Lloyd
The Vitus has three XLR inputs which I use for the DCS Puccini, Magnum Dynalab 109 tuner and the the Whest PS 30 RDT SE phono stage. It also has two RCAs, one of which is used for the Anthem 710 AV amp and the last is used to earth the Vitus SIA 025 amp to the Poseidon,
The two remaining binding posts on the Poseidon are used to ground the negative speaker terminals on the amp with Atlantis earth cables.
I am not familiar with your Gryphon so can't help with how you would ground it but obviously with the appropriate ground box(es) you can ground the negative speaker terminals. I assume you use spade connections for the speaker cables to the amp and the Entreq ground cable should be attached first and then the speaker cables spades.
Check with Fraser who should be able advise.

 

[LL21]

Hi Lloyd
The Vitus has three XLR inputs which I use for the DCS Puccini, Magnum Dynalab 109 tuner and the the Whest PS 30 RDT SE phono stage. It also has two RCAs, one of which is used for the Anthem 710 AV amp and the last is used to earth the Vitus SIA 025 amp to the Poseidon,
The two remaining binding posts on the Poseidon are used to ground the negative speaker terminals on the amp with Atlantis earth cables.
I am not familiar with your Gryphon so can't help with how you would ground it but obviously with the appropriate ground box(es) you can ground the negative speaker terminals. I assume you use spade connections for the speaker cables to the amp and the Entreq ground cable should be attached first and then the speaker cables spades.
Check with Fraser who should be able advise.

Thanks!

 

[gilles13]

To Barry,

If I understand well I can't ground the negative output of my amp if I use panel speakers.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Barry,

To ground amp, how are you doing this? There is not grounding post on the Gryphon and i could barely find any screws...the possible one or 2 on the underside do not allow one to ground according to Gryphon. Are you connecting the Grounding box via grounding cable to one of the XLR inputs or the speaker outputs? Definitely do not want to blow anything up so asking first. Will check with Distributor first in any event, but thought i would ask you in the meantime.

you are correct to be cautious about this. I was seriously thinking about adding another Tripoint Troy Signature to ground the chassis of both my dart 458 mono blocks, but looking at the chassis it is not so simple to figure out the right place to attach a ground. all the circuits are inside suspended from a decoupling hanger(the suspension is no doubt non conducting), there are beautiful aluminum panels with flush screws everywhere, and I was hesitant to just choose a screw on the rear panel after investing $30k into the Troy and cables. I then was going to send a message to the amp designer asking for the best place to attach the ground, but decided not to invest in the additional Troy unit for now. but if I do decide to add a ground to my amps I will definitely check with the amp manufacturer. dealing with the high power of an expensive amplifier is not a place to experiment. if something bad happens......it will be very very bad.

 

[Barry2013]

To Barry,

If I understand well I can't ground the negative output of my amp if I use panel speakers.

I just don't know gilles.
I will make some enquiries to see if I can get a definitive answer and post it here.

 

[caliaripaolo]

you are correct to be cautious about this. I was seriously thinking about adding another Tripoint Troy Signature to ground the chassis of both my dart 458 mono blocks, but looking at the chassis it is not so simple to figure out the right place to attach a ground. all the circuits are inside suspended from a decoupling hanger(the suspension is no doubt non conducting), there are beautiful aluminum panels with flush screws everywhere, and I was hesitant to just choose a screw on the rear panel after investing $30k into the Troy and cables. I then was going to send a message to the amp designer asking for the best place to attach the ground, but decided not to invest in the additional Troy unit for now. but if I do decide to add a ground to my amps I will definitely check with the amp manufacturer. dealing with the high power of an expensive amplifier is not a place to experiment. if something bad happens......it will be very very bad.

Why you have to ground the chassis of both dart 458 mono blocks?
from what I remember, you have already grounded the negative terminals of mono blocks!!!

 

[caliaripaolo]

To Barry,

If I understand well I can't ground the negative output of my amp if I use panel speakers.

you have to check with a multimeter if the negative terminal of your amplifier is shorted to ground (from negative terminal to a chassis screw).

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Why you have to ground the chassis of both dart 458 mono blocks?
from what I remember, you have already grounded the negative terminals of mono blocks!!!

true.....the negative speaker terminals are grounded by the Poseidon.

signal path grounding and chassis grounding are different approaches.....and each have their benefits which are additive.

I have chassis grounding on my dart pre with a Tripoint Troy Signature, and signal path grounding on the dart pre with a Entreq Silver Tellus. both matter.

since the dart 458's likely have the largest single effect of any piece of gear on my system performance, optimizing it's output, lowering noise, reducing EMI/RFI, can potentially help.

if I want to throw $30k of Tripoint wonderfulness at the problem I know I will get benefits. do I need to do it? depends on how you define need.

so far overall system performance is at a spot where I'm not compelled to do it......but stay tuned.

 

[caliaripaolo]

if I want to throw $30k of Tripoint wonderfulness at the problem I know I will get benefits. do I need to do it? depends on how you define need.

I apologize, I didn't mean that you throw your money (I have 2 Poseidons), but I will be more explicit, If you have already grounded the negative terminals of mono blocks, and those terminals are connected to chassis ground (as usual but not always), you have already grounded your chassis.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I apologize, I didn't mean that you throw your money (I have 2 Poseidons), but I will be more explicit, If you have already grounded the negative terminals of mono blocks, and those terminals are connected to chassis ground (as usual but not always), you have already grounded your chassis.

forgive me for my electrical ignorance, but my opinion is that a negative speaker terminal output would not typically be grounded to the chassis.

I am open to learning why my intuition is wrong.

 

[Barry2013]

Panel/Electrostatic Speakers and amp negative speaker terminal grounding with Entreq
As promised I have checked with the UK Entreq distributor as to whether this application is suitable for the above speakers.
He has advised as follows:
"It hasn't been an issue in my experience with systems using Quads (old and new style) - Martin Logans (old and new versions) as well as Apogees... the type of loudspeaker connected to the amplifier hasn't thrown up any issues to my knowledge ( and neither should it really)
It's all about the careful connection to the negative terminals on the amplifier i.e. no accidental shorting (best switch the amplifier off) and ensuring an independent ground point for each channel.. if these basic rules are followed then there should be no problems! I have had people trying to connect at the speakers negative terminal instead of the amplifiers negative terminal - this does still work but it is less effective and is demonstrably so"
The independent ground is a reference to the clear Entreq advice about using a separate ground box for each channel or the Poseidon with its three separate compartments in one box.
I've dealt with him for 2-3 years and have always found his advice entirely reliable so if I had panel or electrostatic speakers I would not have any problem using this grounding application but obviously it is for others to make their individual judgements.
I hope that is helpful.

 

[LL21]

Thanks, Barry and Mike...appreciate the health warning and the industry guidance from Kog Audio.

 

[gilles13]

Many thanks Barry it's quite clear

 

[Barry2013]

Thank you gilles.
I'm glad it is now clear and it has usefully filled a gap in my knowledge too.
Regards,
Barry 2013

 

[Esotar]

I archieved Entreq grounding box collecting perfectly.

My system can single connecting per binding post.

The picture is below...



I'm happy. ^^

 

[caliaripaolo]

forgive me for my electrical ignorance, but my opinion is that a negative speaker terminal output would not typically be grounded to the chassis.

I am open to learning why my intuition is wrong.

Hi Mike,
the main part of audio amplifier projects have the negative output terminals connected to ground.
here after the dartzeel nhb 108 schematic (All drawings and schematics concerning the darTZeel NHB-108 model one are copyrighted and patent-protected and you can find it on request for patent document on the net).

 

[microstrip]

Hi Mike,
the main part of audio amplifier projects have the negative output terminals connected to ground. (...)

Although most negative output terminals are connected to ground, they are not exactly the ground point of the amplifier. Considering that Entreq's bandwidth goes up to the gigahertz, probably even the impedance of this wire can affect its performance. However manufacturer grounding practices vary a lot - IMHO you have to rely on the Entreq distributor / user experience.

 

[Barry2013]

That is very impressive Esotar and I am not surprised that you are happy.
Enjoy!

 

[Fiddle Faddle]

I archieved Entreq grounding box collecting perfectly.

My system can single connecting per binding post.

The picture is below...

I'm happy. ^^

This must surely be the most sophisticated and comprehensive Entreq setup that exists outside of Entreq headquarters themselves!

 

[LL21]

BTW, I note that Boulder expressly says on the back of its 2060 amp NOT to connect any ground to any of the outputs. Sorry to triple check...but is this different than connecting the negative output terminal to an Entreq/Tripoint? I don't have this amp, but the Gryphon Colosseum is also a very powerful, Class A amp which is also connected via a high-powered 16amp connection to the wall.