Entreq Tellus grounding

[Barry2013]

Thanks Mike for the additional info on the Evolution Accoustic speakers.
Know very little about them as they are not really on the radar over here in the UK.
Although not for any particular preference for wood or metal, but because I liked their sound, I opted for YGs and am very pleased with my YG Kipod Signature passives. They match my partnering components very well (Vitus SIA 025,DCS,Magnum Dynalab 109, Townshend Rock V/Dynavector DV 1t) and Entreq grounding and cables).
That said I'm sure that it's not in the same league as your system and that your choice of Evolution speakers was a carefully considered and very satisfying choice.

 

[NorthStar]

? Interview: http://www.evolutionacoustics.com/reviews/interviews/

Bonus video :b

 

[Barry2013]

Well done Bob.
Your photo of MI6 HQ comes hard on the heels of the publication yesterday of the independent Chilcot Inquiry into the Iraq war and the intelligence agencies here in the UK don't come out of it very well at all.
When a butterfly flaps its wings?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

? Interview: http://www.evolutionacoustics.com/reviews/interviews/

Bonus video :b

Bob,

I've been in that MM7-darTZeel room and met 'Blueberry' the Bird. loved it!!!!

 

[NorthStar]

Lol, that wasn't on my mind Barry, just the serial number; MMSeven and its reciprocity with MI6, that's all. :b
I was also searching hard and it reminded me of that movie for sure; The Imitation Game.

I am again coming back empty, but found this link: http://www.monoandstereo.com/2015/01/anechoic-versus-bass.html
Check the inside design for sound acoustics; I've never seen that before.

But nothing on the MMSeven's internals; no cutaway, no video on its making of.
Only the MMThreeExact has few internal pics on its crossover: http://www.evolutionacoustics.com/loudspeakers/mmthreeexact/

It's been fun looking. And the wood thing is fascinating...4,000 layers! ...And all those Entreq products with wood, down to the end cable connectors (coverings). It's the updated link on Entreq wood products that had me fascinated and highly interested.
...This post with the link inside ? http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...llus-grounding&p=402330&viewfull=1#post402330
And also its very next reply, by Fiddle Faddle.

And Mike is absolutely right; wood is not an audio signal conductor, so it must help in better audio signals transferring without contamination from nearby metal and electrical conductive audio signals. Their wood audio racks make good sense to me, so Entreq is to not be dismissed in my audio bible book. I don't care about money, I only care about the listening improvement. Because my money, her money...it's all our own money that no one can tell us how to dispose of it. This hobby is fun, and this is only one small reason among a vast ocean of them. Who wouldn't love to afford Mike's system?
Music is better than all the crap going on everywhere on our planet. ...Rio's bacteria in their waters (beaches), USA elections, ISIS, violence, cops corruption, all that bad heavy metal music with lyrics of destruction and killing.

There is no price to peace; it's the most valuable commodity. We should all import and export it. And that's exactly what Mike's doing. That's the way I see it.

 

[NorthStar]

I'm smiling right now Mike; I love that video too...Evolution Acoustics MMSeven Loudspeakers Are For The Birds! :b
_______

Another bonus :b

[video=vimeo;8243280]https://vimeo.com/8243280[/video]

 

[Fiddle Faddle]

Hi FF.
The Wilma is obviously ideal for your needs and I look forward to hearing how you get on.

Hi Barry,

I am not in any great hurry for rack upgrades but yes, that very fact and my procrastination has obviously played into my hands. I likely won't have funds till next year though - the recent Wireworld purchase has pretty much exhausted all my funds for some time. Nevertheless, next year I will then make contact with the Australian distributer regarding the available configurations, etc. But I am hoping the savings will be significant since it is just not materials and labour I would be saving on - it would be freight costs to the other side of the world which I imagine factor significantly into the price.

As for my system, I have honestly reached a point now where when I listen to it, I wonder how it would be possible to materially improve it. I don't mean it cannot be better - in theory of course every system that exists can be made better - but I am not sure that any improvements now would be worthwhile or will increase my enjoyment of it (which I have to say is at an all time high). When you have a system that makes great recordings sound unbelievable, good recordings sound great, mediocre recordings sound very nice and poor recordings sound fine, you have to wonder what is next on the upgrade list...

You may find this hard to believe, but my recent upgrade to a Wireworld Gold Eclipse interconnect brought even greater sonic improvements than the Entreq gear did! Well, it brought a different improvement. The Entreq added more detail and a sense of the performing hall but the Wireworld cable transformed the sound in a way that I never thought remotely possible from an interconnect cable - and I say that as a true cable believer! Suddenly the system "timing" across the whole spectrum is beyond fault, massed violins sound absolutely stunning - even on CD, brass is incredible and the last remnants of warmth and bloat (cannot stand those things) just disappeared immediately. As a "budget priced" high end cable only costing around $1,000 per half metre or thereabouts, it would have to be the most cost effective upgrade I have made in my life. That takes nothing away from the Entreq gear which also makes a big difference, but I am stunned nevertheless at how such unpretentious seeming upgrades can make such a monumental improvement.

So as for the Everest and K2 things, I actually worry they may upset a synergy that I currently have extreme difficulty in finding faulting with. I am more interested in their ability to keep those darned Entreq grounding cables in place!!

 

[Apogeelover]

It appears to me that these virtual earth devices are doing no more than what can be achieved by proper earthing techniques at far less cost;in my case a single high current dedicated mains spur,earth cable then paralled with secondary low impedance earth(Radex cable clamped to a nickel plated solid copper spike in clay soil) which feed a Ben Duncan Earth Henry inductor which then feeds a star earth buss bar.The equipment cases and mains filter are then star earthed to this buss bar and lastly the electronics in each case are then gound lifted at the input sockets with 100ohm resistors with paralled 100nf RFI caps.Do this and you should experience zero hum and improved sound.

 

[FrantzM]

It appears to me that these virtual earth devices are doing no more than what can be achieved by proper earthing techniques at far less cost;in my case a single high current dedicated mains spur,earth cable then paralled with secondary low impedance earth(Radex cable clamped to a nickel plated solid copper spike in clay soil) which feed a Ben Duncan Earth Henry inductor which then feeds a star earth buss bar.The equipment cases and mains filter are then star earthed to this buss bar and lastly the electronics in each case are then gound lifted at the input sockets with 100ohm resistors with paralled 100nf RFI caps.Do this and you should experience zero hum and improved sound.

Schematics or Drawing please?

 

[Speedskater]

It appears to me that these virtual earth devices are doing no more than what can be achieved by proper earthing techniques at far less cost;..............

Very different ideas. These earthing boxes don't act as a 'common reference point.

in my case a single high current dedicated mains spur,earth cable then paralled with secondary low impedance earth(Radex cable clamped to a nickel plated solid copper spike in clay soil) which feed a Ben Duncan Earth Henry inductor which then feeds a star earth buss bar.The equipment cases and mains filter are then star earthed to this buss bar and lastly the electronics in each case are then gound lifted at the input sockets with 100ohm resistors with paralled 100nf RFI caps.Do this and you should experience zero hum and improved sound.

Not at all sure how all of this is connected but that secondary copper spike may be a bad idea. All connections to Planet Earth need to join at a common point.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

It appears to me that these virtual earth devices are doing no more than what can be achieved by proper earthing techniques at far less cost;in my case a single high current dedicated mains spur,earth cable then paralled with secondary low impedance earth(Radex cable clamped to a nickel plated solid copper spike in clay soil) which feed a Ben Duncan Earth Henry inductor which then feeds a star earth buss bar.The equipment cases and mains filter are then star earthed to this buss bar and lastly the electronics in each case are then gound lifted at the input sockets with 100ohm resistors with paralled 100nf RFI caps.Do this and you should experience zero hum and improved sound.

Schematics or Drawing please?

deja vu all over again.

how many threads have we had on this direction?

maybe Apogeelover has some fresh ideas to bring to the table. I wonder if he has heard any Entreq or Tripoint products?

 

[Apogeelover]

Kevin,the secondary earth should be no problem as it is joined with the mains earth proper before the earth filter, so the equipment is only seeing apparantly one earth. I still contend that if these virtual earth devices are improving sound and lowering hum they are covering up incorrect earthing practices in the equipment.
One of the bad practices you see is where the mains earth is directly connected to the power supply caps centre tap;this is asking for trouble,leading to uneccessary hum and distortion.True earth should be as far away from power supplies and loudspeaker earths as possible.

 

[Speedskater]

.......................One of the bad practices you see is where the mains earth is directly connected to the power supply caps centre tap;this is asking for trouble,leading to uneccessary hum and distortion.True earth should be as far away from power supplies and loudspeaker earths as possible.

The Protective Earth/Safety Ground is connected directly to the amplifier's chassis. How and where the DC supply circuit is connected to the chassis, is up to the design engineer.

Kevin,the secondary earth should be no problem as it is joined with the mains earth proper before the earth filter, so the equipment is only seeing apparantly one earth. I still contend that if these virtual earth devices are improving sound and lowering hum they are covering up incorrect earthing practices in the equipment.

I have no clue as to what you are doing, but there should be no filters in the Protective Earth/Safety Ground or in the grounding system to Planet Earth. Note that these are two separate systems joined at only one point.

 

[Apogeelover]

Kevin,where the DC supply is connected is important and it appears some engineers get it wrong.The earth chassis isolation system I`ve described isn`t some weird thing I`ve thought up it is well established practice in well designed equipment and is known to give the best results with regard to hum rejection and lowest distortion.Bruno Putzeys uses this method in his amplifiers,are you suggesting this electronics genius doesn`t know what he`s talking about?
With regards to the earth filter this doesn`t compromise safety at all;it is a giant inductor 7 inches in diameter by 13 inches long made with heavy guage earth cable.As for having more than one grounding reference some people advocate using multiple spikes spread over a wide area for best results not just one like I use.

 

[microstrip]

(...) The equipment cases and mains filter are then star earthed to this buss bar and lastly the electronics in each case are then gound lifted at the input sockets with 100ohm resistors with paralled 100nf RFI caps.Do this and you should experience zero hum and improved sound.

I have seen this grounding system used with success in some old power amplifiers, although using 47 ohm and a capacitor. I am not sure that every country electrical code allow it for all equipment. The signal grounds are connected to the power supply and are considered accessible points. Some codes specify that all accessible points should be connected to the earth wire by "reliable means" of low impedance. Do you know what is the maximum value allowed for this resistor?

 

[Apogeelover]

I have seen this grounding system used with success in some old power amplifiers, although using 47 ohm and a capacitor. I am not sure that every country electrical code allow it for all equipment. The signal grounds are connected to the power supply and are considered accessible points. Some codes specify that all accessible points should be connected to the earth wire by "reliable means" of low impedance. Do you know what is the maximum value allowed for this resistor?

The standard value of the ground lift resistor is usually 100 ohms but this doesn`t compromise any safety issues apparantly.Bruno Putzeys class d amplifiers use this method so I assume they comply with most electrical safety codes.

 

[microstrip]

The standard value of the ground lift resistor is usually 100 ohms but this doesn`t compromise any safety issues apparantly.Bruno Putzeys class d amplifiers use this method so I assume they comply with most electrical safety codes.

Sorry, but IMHO apparently is not enough concerning safety. I have carried such modification in my own equipment, at my own risk and responsibility, to solve a ground loop insolvable problem using two monoblock amplifiers with a dual mono preamplifier having separate power supplies sharing just the digital control lines. As I used wire power resistors and my system is protected with a 30 mA differential breaker it was not a risk at all. However, when I parted with them I rewired them as standard, with the original ground wire connection.

People must be aware that changing the safety earth system of equipment is a huge responsibility.

 

[Apogeelover]

Microstrip,
As long as the chassis is earthed I can`t see the problem with safety;just think lots of cheap consumer grade electronics in plastic cases don`t have a earth connection,are they unsafe?

 

[Speedskater]

Kevin,where the DC supply is connected is important and it appears some engineers get it wrong.The earth chassis isolation system I`ve described isn`t some weird thing I`ve thought up it is well established practice in well designed equipment and is known to give the best results with regard to hum rejection and lowest distortion.Bruno Putzeys uses this method in his amplifiers,are you suggesting this electronics genius doesn`t know what he`s talking about?

Once again this is about internal circuit design, it has nothing to do with external grounding boxes. But the AC power Safety Ground/Protective Earth needs to be directly connected to the audio component's chassis. (double insulated chassis excepted)

With regards to the earth filter this doesn`t compromise safety at all;it is a giant inductor 7 inches in diameter by 13 inches long made with heavy guage earth cable.

If this inductor is between Planet Earth and the main building connection point, then it's against electrical code and dangerous.

As for having more than one grounding reference some people advocate using multiple spikes spread over a wide area for best results not just one like I use.

Multiple spikes are very common. But all the spikes are joined together at the main building connection point.

 

[Apogeelover]

Kevin,
I think you are misunderstanding what I`m saying about the earth chassis isolation technique.The chassis isn`t ground lifted but the internal circuitry is ground lifted with reference to the grounded chassis.
The Ben Duncan Earth Henry inductor would not be allowed to be sold here in the UK if it violated electrical codes so is not dangerous.
What difference is there between multiple earths joined at the building connection point and a connection point close to the equipment;none that I can see.