You are not getting how it works then…I dont see the issue here the motor is on a seperate base you have a gap between the magnetic driver and the induction wheel .
The speedcontroller makes sure that the speed is 33.3333 for example .
How high that tolerance is at which it is keeping the speed seems to be the discussion point
It seems to me highly unlikely that the 19 kg platter would be influenced , it would may be if the controller was working in a high tolerance but that seems highly unlikely , ask the manufacturer or may be the tolerance in the manual
I think its a excellent clean TT solution .
Cutting lathes speed control
View attachment 107342
Esoteric Grandioso T1 turntable arrives; G1X Master Clock coming.
- Thread starter Mike Lavigne
- Start date
Does it really sound more precise and revealing than the Wavekinetics? That seems like quite the deck…
Ok can you please point me to where I said that the magnets on the drive unit are digital? I believe that the word that I used was binary. It is obvious that they are permanent magnets. By magnetic induction it is meant that the platter is propelled by magnetic repulsion forces.
You wrote many words and said nothing. If you want to play ball let’s do it.
Last edited:
Its a magnetic drive system
From the lathe survey
Lathes have a speed stability performance which surpasses most belt drive turntables by an order of magnitude: only direct-drive turntables come close
Sorry peter
no im joking, i bet the AS 2000 sounds awesome
Carlos, could you describe what is happening when the distance between the drive wheel and the platter is adjusted and how this will affect the sound? This was described earlier as torque adjustment. The other thing I’m curious about is how a higher or lower mass platter would affect things.
I find with my high mass low friction bearing turntable design that the connection to the motor pulley affects the sound. The type of belt or thread and tension all have an effect on the influence of the motor on the platter resulting in a more or less natural sound even though the speed reading remains the same.
Peter, yes I alluded to this earlier in technical terms the magnetic field’s strength decreases as the distance from the source increases, in other words, the weaker the repulsion force that propels the platter gets.
In terms of impact on sound, decreasing the gap leads to greater induced torque and greater resultant drive of the platter analogous and approximating a classical direct driven unit. Conversely, as you increase the gap, it reduces the resultant propellant force on the platter; although the drive torque of the drive unit remains unchanged it’s induced repulsion force drops by the inverse square of the distance of the gap, 1/R^2. The reduced induced rotational force serves to decouple the impulses of the alternating permanent magnets and will lead to a sound more analogous with more looser coupled drive systems like belt drive and string drive.
Adjusting the gap distance between the drive unit and the platter is similar in concept to adjusting damping factor in amplifiers, which allow you to adjust how much control the amplifier has on the voice coil, but in this case the platter.
By the way, this is similar to adjusting string tension in your system.
Last edited:
I owned the Nakamichi Dragon, the auto center feature was cool, but the sound was unimpressive, sounding close to the top of the line Technics !
Perfect TT for the transition too early digital, cold sounding. I never bothered selling it, just threw it in the garbage when i was done with it !
Last edited:
But carlos the speed regulation will keep the speed / platter rotation always exactly the same i assume .
You want me to believe that placing the motor slighltly further from the platter thus increasing the gap will have influence on the sound ,(assuming the speed control will always keep the rotation speed exactly the same)
This seems highly unlikely to me , your talking a 19 kg rotating mass
You want me to believe that placing the motor slighltly further from the platter thus increasing the gap will have influence on the sound ,(assuming the speed control will always keep the rotation speed exactly the same)
This seems highly unlikely to me , your talking a 19 kg rotating mass
Ok, can you please show me where I said that "you've said magnets are digital". Where I explained how it possibly works I believe I said "digital signal is employed to control motor not the magnets".
You're wrong about external digital clock's signal that will absolutely be captured by the output of the turntable (I assume you mean output by cartridge) and can be seen on FFT graph. You can not be sure. It depends on the design and quality. I highly doubt they will poorly design Esoteric Grandioso T1 motor control electronics. As I said earlier it's highly possible that any residue/interference from external clock will be mixed with other sources of vibration of motor. I made many vinyl captures professionally and when I'm cleaning those recordings I always worked using FFT. So don't try teach me what can be seen on FFT of a vinyl capture. And yes I did it on different tables.
Stop using commutation without knowing the type of motor.
Last edited:
That is the concept or theory. For the in practice experience, why don’t you ask Mike what affect making adjustments to the torque setting or gap distance has on the sound. I’m sure that if it made no difference as you are alleging Teac/Esoteric would not have included it.
That would be a good idea .
Im very skeptical regarding the audiophile
What type of motor do you think that it uses? You obviously feel strongly that there is no commutation.
the bearing only sees a load of 4kg. not sure about how that effects the load the drive magnets see?
Platter with Magne-Float system
The platter is a high-mass design of 19kg machined from aluminum block.
The Magne-Float system reduces the load on the bearing to approximately 4kg,
and contributes to quiet rotation by achieving both silky-smooth rotation
with high rotational inertia and reduced friction level in an ideal manner. In addition,
inverted bearings are employed to bring the fulcrum of the platter closer
to the surface of the vinyl disc and increase the stability of rotation.
I'm curious Mike, if the magnets are permanent, is there anything in the instructions to say the motor should be moved away from the platter when not in use to keep from distorting the magnets as they sit next to each other? I would think if you did not play the TT for say a month and the motor was right up close to the platter, you might have the 2 forces realign the permanent structure.
I dont know mike i m not a expert on this small delicate stuff .
The biggest SKF spherical roller thrust bearings i usually work with are 1600 mm in diameter
I m curious if you can hear a difference in sound though if you put the motor closer or further.
Esoteric
Last edited:
Which doesn't? A synchronous motor or a simple DC motor with commutator and brushes etc where it's more of a concern. But referring to commutation when it is not the main subject is diverting the point especially when we don't know the type of the motor.
This Esoteric turntable uses digital signal processing (external clock can be added) to control motor and to control drive current (even if it's digitally processed still in analog waveform). As a result motor's revolution and platter's rotation is continuous like any other turntable which has a non digitally controlled motor.
Last edited:
It's the mass (19kg) that effects the driving motor not the weight (if we presume bearing friction stays the same between 19kg and 4kg).
Close or further, platter speed will be about the same (if you don't move it out of magnetic flux effective area). The difference is the application time of speed corrections induced by motor to the platter. When it's close it will be applied in a short time cause there is more magnetic attraction. When it's far it will be applied in a longer time. This will result as a relaxation effect on sound or vice versa.
Last edited:
i only played with the torque adjust for a couple days 2 weeks ago. and at that time i'm not confident i was set up in terms of the motor position correctly. have not touched it since.
there is a carbon fiber spacer that gives you the proper standoff spot for the motor. after i played around with the torque i found that that spacer was not fitting the proper spot, i was too far out. i had to move the motor into position so the spacer is snug but can be easily removed and inserted. so i decided to leave the torque adjustment in the default position for now and not worry about it. i have rechecked the location of the motor every few days, and it is stable in position so that was my first concern. it's not moving.
i am confident that now everything is properly in place. and at some point will revisit that issue. when i do i will share about it.
learning the ins and outs.
i've read every scrap of information including the manual multiple times and not seen any information suggesting that. i'll ask my Phd in Physics Son In Law about it. he will know if he doesn't know the answer. i know i have no idea.
Thank you very much Carlos. This is more or less what I suspected. I would also think the greater the inertia of the platter from a more massive platter and/or lower friction bearing, would require less direct connection to the driving motor. In this case, the gap between the two could be increased, reducing the effect of the drive unit and should result in smoother rotational consistency.
Similar threads
