Esoteric Grandioso T1 turntable arrives; G1X Master Clock coming.
- Thread starter Mike Lavigne
- Start date
Carlos, the "continuous analog retrieval process" is never better than the pulsing of the poles inside the drive motor or the fluctuations in the power supply in any drive system !
If I understand you correctly about pulsing polls, that's not the case with a slotless motor.
I could not find a reference to the motor type used…it’s not mentioned on the 2.0 website description or review by Roy G.
Mike's words on this TT sound distinctly more epiphanous than on other gear he's bought in the last few years. An extra level of "deep musical insight" goodness.
All my published write-ups are checked by the manufacturer for technical accuracy. That has always been part of my process.
Thoroughly vetted by Alvin Lloyd, here's from from my review:
"The Monaco 2.0 features a new motor and direct-drive control system. Most turntable manufacturers tend to be shy on details, measurements, and the relative importance of their motors, yet the quality of the motor and the quality of sound are bound together. Lloyd replaced the brushless 12-pole DC motor of the 1.5 with a custom-made slotless motor. Slotless motor designs place only copper phase coils in the air gap of the motor; the discontinuous iron teeth found in a slotted motor design (those used in most direct-drive ‘tables) are gone. This virtually eliminates cogging or cogging torque -- the bane of turntable motors. Torque becomes a function of the applied phase current, and current gets into the windings very fast. This means much smoother motion with greater torque linearity than a traditional slotted design, and much less vibration and noise.
The 2.0’s slotless motor comes with enhanced drive control. Beyond saying that the error-correction process is similar to what’s used in the 1.5, GPA won’t talk much about how the Monaco 2.0 does what it does, but they are open about how the ‘table measures. The peak deviation from a perfect 33 1/3rpm rotational speed for the 2.0 is typically better than 0.0001% (1ppm) -- that’s actual platter motion, not a quartz-locked specification."
edit: Alvin holds his technologies very close to the vest and I am under NDA (as I am with all manufacturers.) I can't say the brand of motor or specific customizations but its design is based on a motor used at fabs for making chips. Performance specs are actually much better than what gets published.
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epiphany: "a sudden, intuitive perception of or insight into the reality or essential meaning of something, usually initiated by some simple, homely, or commonplace occurrence or experience."
Strictly speaking that sort of comment is more about the person than the music.
i think the AK ATR-102 w/MR 70 change is a similar subconscious effect......if a bit different. maybe the step up not quite as profound. and i'm not as ultra dialed in on my tapes as my core vinyl. 20 to 1 or 50 to 1 or more play frequency difference.
not done any vinyl <-> tape compares yet. this might scramble that, as it is more clear that steady-ness is a significant advantage to tape (another postulation micro will likely correct me on). have to see where that goes. it will likely change the digital <-> vinyl delta too. but again, not done it yet. new ground to cover as i go along.
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my other thought is that turntable designers and motor control designers will review their designs to potentially accommodate an outboard clock. many tt power supplies use a clock of some sort now. i know Esoteric did patent the magnetic drive part, but did not specifically read about them patenting using an outboard clock. not sure how that might involve belts and direct drive but it seems like it should help those too.
hard to know just how integrated the additional clock is to the whole design. was it something discovered late in the process? or from the beginning? maybe that part was first, and the magnetic drive was an outgrowth of finding a way to integrate the clock with sufficient precision to get the needed clock ROI? the G1X clock is certainly over-the-top design execution but only the latest version of a strong Esoteric direction.
within Esoteric; was the clock design team also the tt design team? they describe it as a 5 year process. love to know how it developed.
maybe Fremer's review will delve into this part as he will have access to the factory info likely. we'll see soon i expect.
hard to know just how integrated the additional clock is to the whole design. was it something discovered late in the process? or from the beginning? maybe that part was first, and the magnetic drive was an outgrowth of finding a way to integrate the clock with sufficient precision to get the needed clock ROI? the G1X clock is certainly over-the-top design execution but only the latest version of a strong Esoteric direction.
within Esoteric; was the clock design team also the tt design team? they describe it as a 5 year process. love to know how it developed.
maybe Fremer's review will delve into this part as he will have access to the factory info likely. we'll see soon i expect.
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agree. i'm observing how i'm processing/reacting to each piece of music and i can tell there is something going on. something i like. more than just a recognition objectively.
Next time you visit David, you need to put that little Monaco in a travel bag and do a direct comparison to the AS 2000 !
How do they compare ? Not having tried them in the same system.It's a ridiculous assertion and simply lacks common sense. One can use any method (including a donkey walking in circles) to keep a record spinning at 33.3; none of that affects the purely mechanical (analog) process of a needle bouncing around the groves.
I use a digital road runner to check the speed of my Garrard, is my table digital now? Of course not.
Your lack of understanding of motor commutation is obvious. I’m not sure if it is even worth my time explaining it to you as you don’t appear to have a clue of the basic concept. I will instead toss you a smaller bite that hopefully you can swallow. Take a look at the magnetic driver below:
What do you see? An alternating magnetic polarity arrangement. Have you ever seen a pulse train? Do you know another name for synchronous periodic drive? How do you think as Mike put it that the alternating or pulsing drive translate on the microscopic pico second time scale on the movement of the record relative to the cartridge’s stylus? Do you know what is driving the movement? An external digital clock is clocking the motor’s commutations.
Jeff you have a lot to learn. “The donkey walking in circles” if the donkey trots……
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As I said above, you just don’t get it. Maybe someone will come along an explain it to you. You just don’t want to listen. Perhaps you can learn from someone else. Sorry but I just can’t get through to you and I made it as simple and straightforward as I know how to.
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