EVS modified Gustard X20/Gustard X20 thread

[Ric Schultz]

This thread is for those with Gustards X20s (stock and modified by owner, myself or anyone) to share their experiences and for those without to learn about its capabilities. I hope we can keep the thread on track and not talk about other Gustard DACs, etc. except in how other DACs sound relative to the Gustard x20. This DAC has so much potential it is crazy. Last year when the $2300 Schiit Yggdrasil came out I was a totally into it. I even had a page on my website on how to mod the Yggy (diy mods, not for sale). You can still find the page if you search. I was convinced that the Yggy would be reference for years. But, as you know, digital is moving very fast. I was looking for a DAC to mod but until the Gustard showed up I saw nothing with modding potential (must be relatively inexpensive, large enough to mod and have great potential). The Yggy was too expensive to work up mods on and the DAC chips were weird and Schiit is not into tweaking. When this thread showed up:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?19433-Chinese-DAC-shames-a-few-heavy-hitters

all heck broke loose. What it is better than Yggy and Vega and costs only $870?…….you got to be kidding?!? No one was kidding. This thing is the real deal. Two ESS DACs, great sounding output stage, great DC power supplies, really great parts, two 60+ Watt Transformers, DSD input, I2S input, digital volume control and it sounds great stock? Yup.

The main thing Gustard messed up was the AC power supply…..simply bad. Steel bolts in transformers, untwisted wires, 5 internal connections not needed, etc. etc. I have worked up level one mods on this baby and they are ready for prime time. The sum total of level one mods is simply breathtaking…….I have never heard this level of detailing from digital…..so dense in information and space and super low noise and dynamic. Wow! All the mods are listed one by one on my website and the AC mods are detailed individually so you can do them yourself. The first three AC mods require no soldering skills. The other ones do. Those with the skills, please go for it. Some things are way beyond even normal tweakers and really must be done by me (like mounting the new diodes and making a custom digital cable and installing it). Doing the first three AC mods takes it to another level. Doing the rest of the AC mods makes you swoon and doing all of level one mods makes you not want to do anything but listen to music. This thing has spoiled me.

My hope is that some people will mod their own……try their own mods and share it with us here, have my mods done and share their experiences. There are so many ways to use the Gustard….directly into an amp, using HQplayer (according to many the best sounding upsampling software) to upsample PCM to double speed DSD, using an interface to get 4X and 8X upsampled and regular 4X DSD into the I2S input of the Gustard, etc.

I won’t go so far as calling the modified Gustard a Giant Killer as I doubt it will beat the $90,000 MSB Select or the latest $25,000 DAC from Meitner……but this thing is playing way out of its price range and my feeling is that it might be the among the best ESS based DACs on the planet. So far, stock, it has got past the Wyred for Sound DSD DAC SE, and the Auralic Vega. I would love to see a modded Gustard A/Bed with all the other ESS DACs: Resonessence Invicta, Mytek Manhattan, Nadac, Exasound, etc. etc. Of course, I would love to see how it fairs against all the other DACs too (R2R based, Wolfson based, Ti based, Analog Devices based, AKM based, etc.). I will be keeping a list of all the DACs the Gustard (stock and modified) is A/Bed with on my site with links to all the online reviews possible. Is there another DAC under $3-4K…(maybe higher) out there that can compete sonically with the modded Gustard? Someday…..probably……now, I am not so sure. Just 3 days ago an old customer of mine called and said he just got a Gustard and it beat his stock Yggy and he only had about 45 hours on the Gustard. He is going to do some mods himself and hopefully he will chime in here. I think the value of this Gustard is unprecedented. I have never seen a digital product play so far above its price range. Not in my 40 plus years in this game. And unlike some of the R2R DACs like all the Schiit DACs it plays DSD allowing you to play DSD files directly and try upsampling PCM to DSD. Some are saying this is the real deal……way better than playing files straight PCM or even upsampled to 384PCM…….double speed and quad speed DSD upsampling according to some is da bomb! As in……”It’s as good as my turntable!”

Website: http://tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/Gustard_X20_Mods.html

Let's have fun!

Ric Schultz
EVS

 

[mauidan]

Is the Gustards X20's I2S HDMI input compatible with PS Audio PWT's I2S HDMI output?

 

[Argonaut]

Most interesting Ric, Hopefully the thread will self propagate as other owners chip in.

 

[Ric Schultz]

Is the Gustards X20's I2S HDMI input compatible with PS Audio PWT's I2S HDMI output?

I am not sure but I think someone mentioned on one of the threads that it might not be......I am sure someone will chime in here with the correct info. This is exactly the place for all this info to be discussed.

 

[Quadman]

I have now had my X20u for over 6 weeks and I wanted to update my experience with this vastly underrated DAC. My X20u is no longer stock as I have performed almost all of the Mods Ric does in his level 1 mod package (tweakaudio.com) click on Gustard Mods. Some of these mods are very easy to perform and just require opening the top and some common sense, others require a good soldering iron and good soldering skills and patience and will void your warranty, but really are you going to send this dac back to China to get repaired? If you want to take this DAC to its highest level I suggest getting the level 1 Mod package. I have done a few different things such as use some 3M rfi/emi absorbing material in the dac in various places, I have not used the Quantum chips and some of my damping material is a bit different than Ric's, also my custom coax cable uses a different dielectric than Ric's, and I use a bit of deflex as vibration control under the tranny's. The procedure I followed tho is Ric's level 1.

Let me preface any further comments with how I listen to this DAC. I built a dedicated windows 10 pro audio computer, with a small 120 Gb SSD for OS and audio programs, 8 Gb ram, and an i7-4790 processor. The motherboard is a gigabyte H81n with a dac-up usb port. My music is stored on an external USB attached HDD. I use an AQ Jitterbug at the dac-up usb port and a modest usb cable from the jitterbug to an uptone regen at the dac input. For audio programs I use Roon integrated with HQPlayer and Tidal. I up sample all music signals to DSD128. Looking forward to the day I can do DSD 256 and hopefully DSD512.

I am blessed to have a very high-resolution stereo playback system. Both Vinyl and digital based. The TT is a well-known English table with a $5K cartridge. I have been a friend with Wally, from Wally set up tools for over 25 years and I am highly skilled in TT and cartridge set up. My vinyl is very good. Digital is as described above. Speakers are actually designed by Wally with input from many very knowledgeable engineers. They use Audio technology drivers and Raal ribbon tweeter in a D’appolito configuration. They can extend down to 20Hz and are very transparent. My amps are the wonderful Wyetech 211C, single ended and capable of 18 watts per channel with 70-watt peaks. The speakers are very amp friendly and we run only the mids and tweeter with the SE amp, the bass is handled by a 250 watt custom SS amp, we also EQ only the bass signal. I have been an audiophile for over 25 years with many systems and rooms over the years and many shootouts; this is not my first rodeo.

I apologize for the long preamble, but felt it necessary to back up what I am about to say and so you can understand how I run this dac. This DAC in its level 1 modification state is a paradigm shift in my listening experiences. I now experience music at a level, I previously thought took mid 6 figures to achieve. The transparency, layering of information, palpable presence of ALL performers, geometrical size of sound stage (both width and depth), tonality, dynamics, density of information… go down the check list are all there. I performed the last of level 1 mod about 10 days ago and since all listening has left me gob smacked (love that word). I hear everything; even that percussionist in the far back of the orchestra has a presence, depth and clarity that before were just a blend with the music. A perfect example I was listening to a Sibelius Violin concerto, conducted by Walter Hendl with the Chicago symphony and Jascha Heifetz on Violin, this was a reference LP for me, one I have heard hundreds of times. About half way thru a tympani comes in and with the LP you were clearly aware of it and its location. The musician keeps striking the tympani softly as the movement progresses; on vinyl you heard the soft rumble of the tympani to the right and deep in the stage. With the Gustard you are now aware of each soft strike of the mallet on the skin of the tympani and the expansion of air within the kettle; density of information, with tremendous transparency, and real palpable presence. My jaw dropped, as I never heard that level of resolution and presence before thru any other system. I hear the same type of effect on jazz, rock, blues what ever. Musicians that before blended into the musical soundscape now had presence and body with precise location and clarity, layers and layers of information. I now hear music in an entirely different way, paradigm shift.

Now I have not compared this dac to other mega or mid-priced dac’s as Knoxville has a very quiet audiophile group, if one at all. Best I can do is compare it to my LP playback system and previous dac the NAD M51. On poorer and older CD’s originals from the 80’s the LP still has a edge, but it is close. On better digital recordings I have to give it to the DAC, soundstage size is superior, Transparency is superior, dynamics are superior, location within the sound field is superior and yes even tonality I give an edge to the DAC.

I have to ask myself, why am I shouting to the high heavens about a DAC made in China, that has no dealer network or support for in the USA. I guess it comes down to value and bang for the buck and my excitement about its performance. This dac proved to be a paradigm shift for me, yet because of it’s price it will NOT be taken seriously by audiophiles. How could it possibly be as good as the Vega, yggy, PS Audio Direct Stream on and on….. without comparing I don’t know, except no other audio product in my 25+ years and trade shows has shifted my perception on music playback like this piece does. I believe Marty when he did his mini dac shootout and called the Gustard (and this is a stock unit) the best and that the Vega just missed the little details. The Gustard does not miss the little details.

My next step is to try to get up to DSD512 and that new F1 card based on the new Xmos xCORE200 series chip that has been released sounds very promising. There is supposed to be an all in one DDC coming out in May based on this card that may give the Gustard a chance to play DSD512 via I2S with a board that is SOTA. I can’t wait to see where this goes. Then we can go play with the T&A Dac 8DSD and see where the Gustard stands. It is WAY above its price point.

 

[Quadman]

Is the Gustards X20's I2S HDMI input compatible with PS Audio PWT's I2S HDMI output?

I do not believe it is. I2S unfortunately has no real standard as it was designed for internal connection within the dac and manufactures were free to do what suited them best. Here is a diagram of the Gustard i2S pin out, if you have similar for PS Audio you can compare.

 

[amirm]

My next step is to try to get up to DSD512 and that new F1 card based on the new Xmos xCORE200 series chip that has been released sounds very promising. There is supposed to be an all in one DDC coming out in May based on this card that may give the Gustard a chance to play DSD512 via I2S with a board that is SOTA. I can’t wait to see where this goes. Then we can go play with the T&A Dac 8DSD and see where the Gustard stands. It is WAY above its price point.

Thanks for the report Quadman. Are you saying there is a new model of this unit or new USB interface card?

 

[YashN]

Very cool, Quadman and Ric.

 

[Quadman]

Thanks for the report Quadman. Are you saying there is a new model of this unit or new USB interface card?

No it is a standalone USB to SPDIF card that is currently available from a separate company Singxer F-1 XU208 there is a long thread on it over at head fi under computer audio. It is based on the new xmos chip and reports of its SQ on usb to spdif are outstanding. Also reports that this company will release a standalone DDC converter (based on this card) which will take usb in and output spdif, aes, i2s and possibly other types. Estimated cost is around $300 us. Expectations are high and if they will do one version matching the Gustard i2s pinout we can then, in theory, try to up sample to dsd512 and see what all the fuss is about that. (check out T&A dac 8 DSD threads). Even if they do not match the Gustard pin out it may still be useable with the Gustard, we'll see.

 

[amirm]

Ah OK, I now understand . Thanks a bunch. I am tempted to pick up the DAC at some point and measure it to see how well it does.

 

[Quadman]

Ah OK, I now understand . Thanks a bunch. I am tempted to pick up the DAC at some point and measure it to see how well it does.

That could be scary, because it sounds so good, that means it will probably measure like crap. As I say got to get the science right first so it would be interesting to see measurements.

 

[Ric Schultz]

I am sure it would measure really well. I mean, it has two ESS DACs in parallel.....and super low noise I-V converters and summers and low noise power supplies. Not sure about the jitter measurements.....but the others would probably be off the chart.

 

[amirm]

What is the cheapest price/source for it? I see it for $895 on Amazon. And what would the be the resale value if I don't keep it?

 

[ACHiPo]

What is the cheapest price/source for it? I see it for $895 on Amazon. And what would the be the resale value if I don't keep it?

I got mine for $869 delivered (the auction site, seller was Forexmen). The non-USB version is available for ~$800.

 

[Quadman]

What is the cheapest price/source for it? I see it for $895 on Amazon. And what would the be the resale value if I don't keep it?

Both of us got ours here http://www.ebay.com/itm/GUSTARD-DAC...547958?hash=item1a02592b76:g:2cgAAOSwu4BVlAb8

In fact I ordered a second sunday evening and today it arrived, wow. Not sure on resale would guess 80-90% of paid price since it has been verified to work and is in the US, as opposed to China, probably plenty of folks on forum be glad to buy a second one. Then again why sell it, you'll like it.

I hope to be able to have this long enough to compare it stock and broken in to my current modded one.

 

[amirm]

Thanks again guys. If any of you have interest in having yours measured, I am here for you . I will pay for return shipping of the unit.

 

[YashN]

No it is a standalone USB to SPDIF card that is currently available from a separate company Singxer F-1 XU208 there is a long thread on it over at head fi under computer audio. It is based on the new xmos chip and reports of its SQ on usb to spdif are outstanding. Also reports that this company will release a standalone DDC converter (based on this card) which will take usb in and output spdif, aes, i2s and possibly other types. Estimated cost is around $300 us. Expectations are high and if they will do one version matching the Gustard i2s pinout we can then, in theory, try to up sample to dsd512 and see what all the fuss is about that. (check out T&A dac 8 DSD threads). Even if they do not match the Gustard pin out it may still be useable with the Gustard, we'll see.

Or use the new diyinhk card.

 

[Ric Schultz]

YashN,
Great find. I had not been to their site for awhile and had no idea they were making a board with the new chips and 512 output capability.......soldering iron getting hot! Put that board in a small box with super power supply/reg......large transformer external, and then hardwire a short I2S cable to it and plug right into the Gustard....and voila....a 512 super DAC......sounds like a plan!

 

[SimonBromleyUK]

Hi there

Just wanted to say that I've done some of these mods, and I'm very happy with the
results so far.

Now I'm thinking about adding some WA quantum chips. I've never used these before,
and have to say I'm a touch dubious, but they do seem to get good reviews and aren't
expensive. However, would the two large Altera chips also benefit ? Also would the
larger 20mm chips work better than the 8mm versions ?

I'm also tempted to try the diode change. However, would like some guidance on what
the best brand and model for this application would be.

Finally, I have a WaveIO card that I've got up and running via HDMI. This was a real
pain in the ass to get working, as Gustard don't use quite the same pin layout as
virtually everyone else.
However, what I'd really like to do, is put the WaveIO inside the X20's case (with its
own separate plug on the back panel for the external LPSU) and tap directly into the
I2S lines provided by the internal PCI slot (where the regular XMOS USB card sits) via
ultra short cables, and so get rid of having to have the LVDS interface and HDMI cable
in the circuit.
Gustard supplied me with a pin assignment diagram, which I spent a couple of hours
trying to get up and running without success, but would very much like to try again.

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me can make this work, as many of the new
cheap XMOS boards have direct I2S output, and being able to go straight into the X20's
I2S lines would surely bring about the best sounding results. That DIYINHK board is only
$90 does DSD 512, and comes with the latest XMOS driver !!

Any help in making this happen would be greatly appreciated.

Best regards

Simon

 

[GUTB]

I've recently purchased the non USB version along with a U12 unit to provide USB to I2S bridging. I've been burning in both units for about 2 days now. I will say that right off the bat I noted the quietness and spatial qualities.

I will be pursing the level 1 mods. Do I go through the website to arrange for it?