Goebel Divin Noblesse Speakers in Da House!

[Ron Resnick]

We were going to exhibit with VTL at Axpona however that was postponed and probably won't happen soon. I would like to hear them with ARC, VTL and VAC as they all make some very good gear but its not feasible right now. I was thinking of asking my friend at ARC to send me some to try now that we are in isolation LOL

VTL makes the MB-185 Series III, which can be outfitted with EL-34 tubes. With the relatively high sensitivity and easy load of these speakers, I would be very curious to know how this combination sounds. (I have heard that the MB-185 Series III with EL-34s is one of Bea Lamm's favorite amps in the right speaker application.)

 

[bonzo75]

The video from the Munich system.. Same Engstrom and Goebbel pairing... is covered here

http://zero-distortion.org/munich-2019/

 

[Rhapsody]

A few points regarding the Eric/Kagura videos....(btw, BEATUTIFUL speakers, room and everything Howiebrou, just gorgeous)

-The E Eric amps are 70 Watts Push Pull amps, the Kaguras 50 Watt SETs. Of course they might be more dynamic and drive a a certain speaker differently than a 50 Watt SET amplifier.

-The Kaguras are being used with a non-Kondo preamp in this system. Kondo amps can sound fine with other preamps, but naturally they sound as designed with Kondo preamplifiers.

-Which tubes are being used in the Kaguras? Which cables? These items can make a huge difference as with any variable in the system and whether these variables have been adjusted to optimize one set of amps or another.

Many attributes of the system determine the sound, NOT just the amplifier. Although there is a BIG difference with ANY 70 watt PP amp vs ANY 50 Watt SET amp. Connect the same two amps to say a 100db 8ohm speaker and it's all going to be different.

-The Kaguras are very sensitive as ALL tube amps are to as to what they are sitting on. I may be incorrect here, but it appears that the Kaguras are sitting directly on the floor, the Erics on special amp stands.

The Kaguras are always used with dedicated amp stands or platforms when demonstrated by Kondo or by any Kagura owner that I am familiar with.

Nothing to do with the Kaguras, BUT place any tube amp on the floor and the other on a dedicated amp stand and there is going to be a significant difference in sound.

Not trying to convince anyone of anything but I do believe it's fair to notice these points.

Be well and keep safe!

 

[howiebrou]

A few points regarding the Eric/Kagura videos....(btw, BEATUTIFUL speakers, room and everything Howiebrou, just gorgeous)

-The E Eric amps are 70 Watts Push Pull amps, the Kaguras 50 Watt SETs. Of course they might be more dynamic and drive a a certain speaker differently than a 50 Watt SET amplifier.

-The Kaguras are being used with a non-Kondo preamp in this system. Kondo amps can sound fine with other preamps, but naturally they sound as designed with Kondo preamplifiers.

-Which tubes are being used in the Kaguras? Which cables? These items can make a huge difference as with any variable in the system and whether these variables have been adjusted to optimize one set of amps or another.

Many attributes of the system determine the sound, NOT just the amplifier. Although there is a BIG difference with ANY 70 watt PP amp vs ANY 50 Watt SET amp. Connect the same two amps to say a 100db 8ohm speaker and it's all going to be different.

-The Kaguras are very sensitive as ALL tube amps are to as to what they are sitting on. I may be incorrect here, but it appears that the Kaguras are sitting directly on the floor, the Erics on special amp stands.

The Kaguras are always used with dedicated amp stands or platforms when demonstrated by Kondo or by any Kagura owner that I am familiar with.

Nothing to do with the Kaguras, BUT place any tube amp on the floor and the other on a dedicated amp stand and there is going to be a significant difference in sound.

Not trying to convince anyone of anything but I do believe it's fair to notice these points.

Be well and keep safe!

Bob. You make some good points. Both amps are on loan to me and I owned the Kaguras for more than 3 years and loved every minute of them. Sure there are differences between the set ups re; support and even the power cables. Everything else is the same, even the speaker cables which are Goebel. You are right about preamps. There can be a great synergy with Kondo amps and the gain of the Robert Koda is relatively small at 6dB. I think that both amps have their strengths and weaknesses depending on the genre of music. In real life the difference is even more marked than the phone videos can make out. What a pity i can't keep both!

 

[Rhapsody]

Bob. You make some good points. Both amps are on loan to me and I owned the Kaguras for more than 3 years and loved every minute of them. Sure there are differences between the set ups re; support and even the power cables. Everything else is the same, even the speaker cables which are Goebel. You are right about preamps. There can be a great synergy with Kondo amps and the gain of the Robert Koda is relatively small at 6dB. I think that both amps have their strengths and weaknesses depending on the genre of music. In real life the difference is even more marked than the phone videos can make out. What a pity i can't keep both!

Hi Howiebrou, My experience has been that the Kaguras are best suited with a now G1000 pre AND this is just for me personally, a 98db+ 8ohm type speaker.

When I have tried to drive for example a 93db 4 ohm speakers with the Kagura, it's ok, but if you put on 70 Watt PP, no doubt it would be my preference, actually not much to think about.

Anyway, I didn't even want to post on this thread to take away ANYTHING from your magnificent speakers and room/system. It truly is world class!!!

Also if anyone is interested in both Kagura and the Eric they should read through this thread as well. Lot's of different opinions and perspectives.

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/engstrom-eric.28578/#post-587277

 

[Rhapsody]

Bob. You make some good points. Both amps are on loan to me and I owned the Kaguras for more than 3 years and loved every minute of them. Sure there are differences between the set ups re; support and even the power cables. Everything else is the same, even the speaker cables which are Goebel. You are right about preamps. There can be a great synergy with Kondo amps and the gain of the Robert Koda is relatively small at 6dB. I think that both amps have their strengths and weaknesses depending on the genre of music. In real life the difference is even more marked than the phone videos can make out. What a pity i can't keep both!

Howiebrou,

Actually I would LOVE to hear your system using your preamp with a great set of SS amps on the DN. I know the tube magic etc. and I would always want that, but I personally would have another set of SS amps that would deliver an entirely different musical experience. Not saying you or anyone else would do or like that, but I would

 

[Elliot G.]

VTL makes the MB-185 Series III, which can be outfitted with EL-34 tubes. With the relatively high sensitivity and easy load of these speakers, I would be very curious to know how this combination sounds. (I have heard that the MB-185 Series III with EL-34s is one of Bea Lamm's favorite amps in the right speaker application.)

I don't believe that was what they were going to use at Axpona . You can certainly ask them since I was not in the decision process there.

 

[howiebrou]

Hi Howiebrou, My experience has been that the Kaguras are best suited with a now G1000 pre AND this is just for me personally, a 98db+ 8ohm type speaker.

When I have tried to drive for example a 93db 4 ohm speakers with the Kagura, it's ok, but if you put on 70 Watt PP, no doubt it would be my preference, actually not much to think about.

Anyway, I didn't even want to post on this thread to take away ANYTHING from your magnificent speakers and room/system. It truly is world class!!!

Also if anyone is interested in both Kagura and the Eric they should read through this thread as well. Lot's of different opinions and perspectives.

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/engstrom-eric.28578/#post-587277

Bob, my previous system was Kondo M1000 MkII with Kaguras driving Sonus Faber Aidas which are 92dB i think and they were a great match. Not that i listen to thrash metal or anything like that, but they were really involving and captivating which is what i like.

 

[howiebrou]

Howiebrou,

Actually I would LOVE to hear your system using your preamp with a great set of SS amps on the DN. I know the tube magic etc. and I would always want that, but I personally would have another set of SS amps that would deliver an entirely different musical experience. Not saying you or anyone else would do or like that, but I would

You know Bob. Every time I move from tubes to solid state I love it, then regret it. I don't know what it is, the harmonics, the decay, the looks, I just get drawn back to tubes. It has happened several times. This might be the last time I would try solid state. I have been through 2 ongakus (one Japan and one UK), Einstein, Mcintosh MC2000, and the Kaguras. May be I should follow my nose and stop fishing!

 

[Rhapsody]

You know Bob. Every time I move from tubes to solid state I love it, then regret it. I don't know what it is, the harmonics, the decay, the looks, I just get drawn back to tubes. It has happened several times. This might be the last time I would try solid state. I have been through 2 ongakus (one Japan and one UK), Einstein, Mcintosh MC2000, and the Kaguras. May be I should follow my nose and stop fishing!

Yes, understood. In my situation I have people coming in from around the globe. I have to be able to even play Hip Hop/Rap and very intense dynamic electronica. That's where I find the Kagura on the 92db type speaker to lack vs. when you feed the 92db speaker with more power.

For normal listening as you say the Kaguras work fine on 92db, even 89db depending on the impedance curve of the speaker.

I envy you!!! I bet you are having fun breaking in the speakers. I am waiting for the delivery truck today bringing my Alsyvox Botticelli X's. Looking forward to breaking them in as well.

Enjoy and keep safe!!!

 

[howiebrou]

Yes, understood. In my situation I have people coming in from around the globe. I have to be able to even play Hip Hop/Rap and very intense dynamic electronica. That's where I find the Kagura on the 92db type speaker to lack vs. when you feed the 92db speaker with more power.

For normal listening as you say the Kaguras work fine on 92db, even 89db depending on the impedance curve of the speaker.

I envy you!!! I bet you are having fun breaking in the speakers. I am waiting for the delivery truck today bringing my Alsyvox Botticelli X's. Looking forward to breaking them in as well.

Enjoy and keep safe!!!

Ooh. Alsyvox Botticellis....now that's one sweet speaker. Now I'm jealous too.

 

[Rhapsody]

You know Bob. Every time I move from tubes to solid state I love it, then regret it. I don't know what it is, the harmonics, the decay, the looks, I just get drawn back to tubes. It has happened several times. This might be the last time I would try solid state. I have been through 2 ongakus (one Japan and one UK), Einstein, Mcintosh MC2000, and the Kaguras. May be I should follow my nose and stop fishing!

I personally can't settle on either tubes or SS. I REALLY enjoy having both, just to change off every few months or every week if my mood dictates it. I really enjoy a good tube pre with SS amps, but even certain SS pre/amps float my boat, ie, Pilium.

 

[howiebrou]

I personally can't settle on either tubes or SS. I REALLY enjoy having both, just to change off every few months or every week if my mood dictates it. I really enjoy a good tube pre with SS amps, but even certain SS pre/amps float my boat, ie, Pilium.

How about tubes on the top half and SS on the bottom half? That's what Mcintosh is doing for its latest amp.

 

[Rhapsody]

How about tubes on the top half and SS on the bottom half? That's what Mcintosh is doing for its latest amp.

I've done that before, but for whatever reason it's not my cup of tea in general, BUT unless you connect it all up with specific components/speakers/room/listener who's to say?

I never know ANYTHING unless I connect something up and listen on that day, in that room, with my mood on that day etc. Then I know what that is, everything else is just mental gymnastics for me.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Howie, could you have got these in white to better blend in w your decor?

 

[bonzo75]

Howie, could you have got these in white to better blend in w your decor?

Alternatively, he could paint the walls black

 

[spiritofmusic]

Is he a Stones fan?

 

[jeff1225]

Howie,
Are you ready to give us your opinion of the SF vs the new Goebel? I have sneaking suspicion that the Goebel's are far superior for the reasons I love my speakers:

1. MTM configuration
2. Horn/wave guide loaded tweeter
3. Higher efficiency

Enjoy!

 

[Elliot G.]

How about tubes on the top half and SS on the bottom half? That's what Mcintosh is doing for its latest amp.

Howie,
Its a sports car station wagon. They may be making it but they are not making product in the league with the worlds best IMO.
I am going to step on a land mine here but if you have two amps and neither is superior for you then I believe its like having 2 Quarterbacks which means you have none. There are a ton of quality amps in the market either SS or Tube. I am not going to discuss the differences etc but if neither of those is blowing your hair back then perhaps you might want to try something else.
VAC
ARC
VTL etc
BI amp these speakers with SS and tube would require an electronic crossover and that gets really tricky. They can easily be bi amped with two identical amps however I would suggest you try a few other amps and see what you like and what will make you happy across the entire musical spectrum. There may not be any "perfect" products but there are products that do enough to make you want to stop playing around and just enjoy the music.
Best regards,
E

 

[howiebrou]

Howie, could you have got these in white to better blend in w your decor?

What like these? I have had two pairs here. I asked for the white top plate to be mixed with the black body on one side just to see if it worked. White is my preference.