Goebel Divin Noblesse Speakers in Da House!

[howiebrou]

Howie,
Are you ready to give us your opinion of the SF vs the new Goebel? I have sneaking suspicion that the Goebel's are far superior for the reasons I love my speakers:

1. MTM configuration
2. Horn/wave guide loaded tweeter
3. Higher efficiency

Enjoy!

Both speakers are very nice but the Goebels are on a different level and I guess their price also is on a slightly different plane too. The Goebels are much more coherent than the Aidas. I feel that the Goebels could do all genres pretty well whereas the Aidas are more limited to vocals, strings and large orchestral music. It's been a while since I heard the Aidas but they were with me for about 5 years and I thoroughly enjoyed them.

 

[howiebrou]

Howie,
Its a sports car station wagon. They may be making it but they are not making product in the league with the worlds best IMO.
I am going to step on a land mine here but if you have two amps and neither is superior for you then I believe its like having 2 Quarterbacks which means you have none. There are a ton of quality amps in the market either SS or Tube. I am not going to discuss the differences etc but if neither of those is blowing your hair back then perhaps you might want to try something else.
VAC
ARC
VTL etc
BI amp these speakers with SS and tube would require an electronic crossover and that gets really tricky. They can easily be bi amped with two identical amps however I would suggest you try a few other amps and see what you like and what will make you happy across the entire musical spectrum. There may not be any "perfect" products but there are products that do enough to make you want to stop playing around and just enjoy the music.
Best regards,
E

Elliot, I have no problem with these amps. I was just responding to Bob's comments re SS vs Tubes. They both, in their own way, sound sublime on the Noblesses.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Howie, I actually meant the Divins in white.

 

[howiebrou]

Howie, I actually meant the Divins in white.

Oh sorry. Yeah, possible although i have never seen one even in photos. Here is a black and white mixture of the Noblesse's big brother the majestic.

 

[Rhapsody]

I had not intention of suggesting SS on the tweeters/mid and tubes on the bottom or the opposite. I was referring to Tube preamps and SS amps or I thought Howiebrou meant SS preamp and Tube amps.

I know people have tried it with external Xovers with mixing tubes and SS on bi-amp speakers.....not my cup of tea. But I do like listening to really good SS at times and then switch to really good tubes for a change of pace.

 

[howiebrou]

I had not intention of suggesting SS on the tweeters/mid and tubes on the bottom or the opposite. I was referring to Tube preamps and SS amps or I thought Howiebrou meant SS preamp and Tube amps.

I know people have tried it with external Xovers with mixing tubes and SS on bi-amp speakers.....not my cup of tea. But I do like listening to really good SS at times and then switch to really good tubes for a change of pace.

I know Bob, sorry if i wasn't clear on my comments. Yes that would be ideal, having the best of both worlds. Probably not in my lifetime!

 

[spiritofmusic]

Sure Howie, just what you need...customers other than you picking the color for you Lol.

If there is a brave new post-Covid world, my next spkrs could v well be white.

 

[Rhapsody]

I know Bob, sorry if i wasn't clear on my comments. Yes that would be ideal, having the best of both worlds. Probably not in my lifetime!

You were clear I thought Elliot thought I was talking about SS on the tweeters/mid and tubes on the bottom....not

 

[howiebrou]

Sure Howie, just what you need...customers other than you picking the color for you Lol.

If there is a brave new post-Covid world, my next spkrs could v well be white.

White speakers can be stunning if they're the right shape. Otherwise they run the danger of looking like refrigerators.

 

[ddk]

A few points regarding the Eric/Kagura videos....(btw, BEATUTIFUL speakers, room and everything Howiebrou, just gorgeous)

-The E Eric amps are 70 Watts Push Pull amps, the Kaguras 50 Watt SETs. Of course they might be more dynamic and drive a a certain speaker differently than a 50 Watt SET amplifier.

-The Kaguras are being used with a non-Kondo preamp in this system. Kondo amps can sound fine with other preamps, but naturally they sound as designed with Kondo preamplifiers.

-Which tubes are being used in the Kaguras? Which cables? These items can make a huge difference as with any variable in the system and whether these variables have been adjusted to optimize one set of amps or another.

Many attributes of the system determine the sound, NOT just the amplifier. Although there is a BIG difference with ANY 70 watt PP amp vs ANY 50 Watt SET amp. Connect the same two amps to say a 100db 8ohm speaker and it's all going to be different.

-The Kaguras are very sensitive as ALL tube amps are to as to what they are sitting on. I may be incorrect here, but it appears that the Kaguras are sitting directly on the floor, the Erics on special amp stands.

The Kaguras are always used with dedicated amp stands or platforms when demonstrated by Kondo or by any Kagura owner that I am familiar with.

Nothing to do with the Kaguras, BUT place any tube amp on the floor and the other on a dedicated amp stand and there is going to be a significant difference in sound.

Not trying to convince anyone of anything but I do believe it's fair to notice these points.

Be well and keep safe!

Theoretically SETs are supposed to sound most natural of all topologies but this isn't the case in Howie's videos and it has nothing to do with wattage or system synergy, there's not need to confuse Howie and others, the Kaguras just sound hifi. Of course we can always send him Daiza's !

david

 

[Rhapsody]

Theoretically SETs are supposed to sound most natural of all topologies but this isn't the case in Howie's videos and it has nothing to do with wattage or system synergy, there's not need to confuse Howie and others, the Kaguras just sound hifi. Of course we can always send him Daiza's !

david

Whatever....and fwiw David, you are the only manufacturer that I think that I can remember that publicly knocks other vendors products. Whatever turns you on, doesn't have any effect on me.

 

[ddk]

Whatever....and fwiw David, you are the only manufacturer that I think that I can remember that publicly knocks other vendors products. Whatever turns you on, doesn't have any effect on me.

We had this conversation before, I prefer to be upfront rather than going behind someone's backs it gives the other side a chance to reply. Would you rather I PM'd Howie?

I didn't post to get a rise out of you and it has nothing to do with business and we're not in a competition either it's audiophile to audiophile on an audio forum, I simply disagree with your rationalization, thought we can keep an open mind here and not look at everything through a business lens.

david

 

[Rhapsody]

We had this conversation before, I prefer to be upfront rather than going behind someone's backs it gives the other side a chance to reply. Would you rather I PM'd Howie?

I didn't post to get a rise out of you and it has nothing to do with business and we're not in a competition either it's audiophile to audiophile on an audio forum, I simply disagree with your rationalization, thought we can keep an open mind here and not think of everything from a business angle.

david

Well saying that all Kondo always sounds like crap and hi-fi to you and that I am confusing people and a dig on Diaza......that WILL get a rise out of me every time.

No problem with you simply disagreeing with my opinion, I disagree with yours too

 

[ddk]

Well saying that all Kondo always sounds like crap and hi-fi to you and that I am confusing people and a dig on Diaza......that WILL get a rise out of me every time.

No problem with you simply disagreeing with my opinion, I disagree with yours too

Don't get upset Bob, the Daiza comment was just a joke since you brought up platforms in the previous post.

david

 

[Rhapsody]

Don't get upset Bob, the Daiza comment was just a joke since you brought up platforms in the previous post.

david

I'm surprised that you don't think it matters what tube gear sits on. Surprises me. Not saying Diazas or what platforms, but my experience has always been that it can make a big difference on what a tube amps sits on.

My experience regarding system synergies and certain amp/speaker pairings has always been a no-brainer to me. I've personally struggled with Kaguras, Lamm ML3's and Absolare 50 Wattish SET's on certain speakers. When I put on 70 or 80 Watt PP, the problems all went away.

Again, just my experience, nothing more than that.

 

[ddk]

I'm surprised that you don't think it matters what tube gear sits on. Surprises me. Not saying Diazas or what platforms, but my experience has always been that it can make a big difference on what a tube amps sits on.

My experience regarding system synergies and certain amp/speaker pairings has always been a no-brainer to me. I've personally struggled with Kaguras, Lamm ML3's and Absolare 50 Wattish SET's on certain speakers. When I put on 70 or 80 Watt PP, the problems all went away.

Again, just my experience, nothing more than that.

My comments were regarding Howie's tests, of course what equipment sit on and matching speakers to low power SETs is important but in this case I don't consider the floor such a bad alternative nor what everyone who commented here heard a speaker/amp matching issue, unless the Kagura's were clipping which I didn't hear in the videos.

david

 

[Rhapsody]

My comments were regarding Howie's tests, of course what equipment sit on and matching speakers to low power SETs is important but in this case I don't consider the floor such a bad alternative nor what everyone who commented here heard a speaker/amp matching issue, unless the Kagura's were clipping which I didn't hear in the videos.

david

Your comments about Kondo always sounding like crap were not just about Howie's videos.

I think that the 70 Watt PP does make a difference vs. the 50 Watt SET's on the DN, but it's just a hunch as I of course have not heard them.

Unless I was in Howie's room and could change the Eric and Kagura positions from floor to stands and listen then I really have no idea. Again just a hunch. I do think there would be a difference.

I also have no idea how Howie's preamp matches with the Kaguras vs. the Erics.

I heard what is on the videos and agree with everyone said, but my opinion is that just changing ic's from one amp to another and not optimizing the system, ie, trying different preamps, cables, what amps are sitting on, and judging from a cell phone video on one or two fairly sedate tracks and making profound judgements doesn't equate for me.

I think if you put on electronica or hip-hop, yes, I and MANY of my customers listen to both or full orchestra, then I think the Eric's will rise to a different level, just because of the 70 Watt PP and great transformers. That's been my experience.

 

[ddk]

Your comments about Kondo always sounding like crap were not just about Howie's videos.

I think that the 70 Watt PP does make a difference vs. the 50 Watt SET's on the DN, but it's just a hunch as I of course have not heard them.

Unless I was in Howie's room and could change the Eric and Kagura positions from floor to stands and listen then I really have no idea. Again just a hunch. I do think there would be a difference.

I also have no idea how Howie's preamp matches with the Kaguras vs. the Erics.

I heard what is on the videos and agree with everyone said, but my opinion is that just changing ic's from one amp to another and not optimizing the system, ie, trying different preamps, cables, what amps are sitting on, and judging from a cell phone video on one or two fairly sedate tracks and making profound judgements doesn't equate for me.

I think if you put on electronica or hip-hop, yes, I and MANY of my customers listen to both or full orchestra, then I think the Eric's will rise to a different level, just because of the 70 Watt PP and great transformers. That's been my experience.

My Kondo electronics comments have appeared in many places in the past both veiled and unveiled that's not new, I was only referring to the matching issue in this context. Please don't get bothered with manner Bob, this is just me, unfiltered. Age only makes it worse .

david

 

[Tango]

Bob. You make some good points. Both amps are on loan to me and I owned the Kaguras for more than 3 years and loved every minute of them. Sure there are differences between the set ups re; support and even the power cables. Everything else is the same, even the speaker cables which are Goebel. You are right about preamps. There can be a great synergy with Kondo amps and the gain of the Robert Koda is relatively small at 6dB. I think that both amps have their strengths and weaknesses depending on the genre of music. In real life the difference is even more marked than the phone videos can make out. What a pity i can't keep both!

I am sure the real life difference is much more than what the video can capture. People say putting Kagura on floor is at disadvantage. On the same token, putting the Engstrom on platform could also lessen the sound. I am sure you don't really care how great great the Kagura performs in other system Howie. And I am sure you are being very polite giving your comment.

 

[howiebrou]

I am sure the real life difference is much more than what the video can capture. People say putting Kagura on floor is at disadvantage. On the same token, putting the Engstrom on platform could also lessen the sound. I am sure you don't really care how great great the Kagura performs in other system Howie. And I am sure you are being very polite giving your comment.

Tang, you are the master diplomat!

I would say that both pairs of amps are probably not optimised at the moment, and there is still a lot of potential to be drawn out of both. I took videos of both sets just for interest and I'm glad it has drawn some. Both are excellent products imo but as has been said more than once, synergy with everything else in the system is also important.

Please continue to give me your thoughts, filtered or not.

Cheers

howie