Golden Ear - Triton (closer to the) Reference

[Markuzz]

OK, here's an observation:

I just made a few (raw) measurements on the power draw of the Trefs from the wall outlet. I played a test track producing a 20Hz test tone. I cranked SPL's up to value's to 93dB (measured 1m from the woofers). The radiators show an excursion of over 2cm, which made everything in the room vibrate along

Interestingly enough, the power drained from the wall outlet (only one speaker connected) showed a max of 70W. Normal SPL's show about 20W, and idle is 16-18W.

All is measured with fairly basic devices, so a deviation of 10-15% is expected. Nevertheless, it seems the amp inside the Tref looks nicely over dimensioned (with a rated 1800W). Obviously a constant sinus of 20Hz is not very representative for music reproduction, but it is a fun observation.

 

[Mikko Mattila]

Thöress is the best gear I have ever owned. It’s insanely transparent, and at the same time very natural sounding, and on top of that Reinhard Thöress is such a nice person. Check this review of the EHT Integrated and read the white paper if interested. Also you’re more than welcome to visit and listen to upgraded T Ref’s with Thöress gear

Gramophone Dreams #77: Laissez-faire Listening & the Thöress EHT MKII integrated amplifier

With a system like this, Thoreau would never have gone into the woods to begin with.

www.stereophile.com

Sikora, Thöress. TRefs must be a spectacular combination!. Will read Herb R's article more thoroughly later today. Also late Art Dudley's earlier article was mentioned. Enjoyed always his writings and approach. Sad we lost him far too early.
I currently run Well Tempered/Ortofon 2M Black LVB, EAR (tube), Levinson 334, Trefs.

 

[MortenB]

I had a look at my T Ref pictures again, and the early prototype / mock-up of the filters you will get from Tony.

If you have reservations removing the small bracing marked with yellow, you can give this a try. Again, to both me an Tony removing the small brace is a non issue, but if it is an issue for you, maybe there is a way…

One picture here shows the early mock-up of your new crossovers. As mentioned earlier, there will be wires soldered between these two boards.

Maybe you can fit the boards as indicated with green with a board either side of the brace. I don’t know, if there is space for the board between the DSP board (green PCB to the left) and the yellow brace, but you can check this, when you get the filters. You might then have to replace the wires Tony solder between the two boards with longer wires, as the boards will need to be located further apart to clear the brace.

Or you can remove the small yellow brace, install the two filters and add a new brace that takes up less space if that helps the installation. This could be what we call a ‘’rundstok’’… No idea what it’s called in English, but see the picture. That will have a similar non structural function between two points at the sides of the cabinet.

 

[Mikko Mattila]

OK, here's an observation:

I just made a few (raw) measurements on the power draw of the Trefs from the wall outlet. I played a test track producing a 20Hz test tone. I cranked SPL's up to value's to 93dB (measured 1m from the woofers). The radiators show an excursion of over 2cm, which made everything in the room vibrate along

Interestingly enough, the power drained from the wall outlet (only one speaker connected) showed a max of 70W. Normal SPL's show about 20W, and idle is 16-18W.

All is measured with fairly basic devices, so a deviation of 10-15% is expected. Nevertheless, it seems the amp inside the Tref looks nicely over dimensioned (with a rated 1800W). Obviously a constant sinus of 20Hz is not very representative for music reproduction, but it is a fun observation.

This reminds me one reason why i respect GoldenEar engineering team so much. They are one of those few, who really spent efforts for measuring the prototypes with combination of critical listening thoroughly. All of their gear measures well, even on areas where many others fail on the test bench, e.g on step response. Then there are plenty of speakers which measures well, but fails to involve. I don't know what was the secret source of Sandy Gross' team how they managed to succeed on both aspects. Personally, most what matters is how it sounds.
Dunlavy Labs had the strict fact based engineering approach, too with a QA using reference to live acoustical instruments. KEF has excellent R&D resources too as well as many others.
Whereas many ultra-high end brands do not surprisingly share this approach. We can see that easily on e.g. the Stereophile's A-listed speaker measurements or on the NRC's (National Research Council in Canada) measurement library. Many of those most expensive gear on the list appears to be voiced by ear and fails very critical time alignment on step response or reasobly flat on-axis frequency response. Don't want to mention names, as there has been heated debates elsewhere. Hope i'm not off-limits what can be said on WBF...forgive again in advance.

 

[Markuzz]

I had a look at my T Ref pictures again, and the early prototype / mock-up of the filters you will get from Tony.

If you have reservations removing the small bracing marked with yellow, you can give this a try. Again, to both me an Tony removing the small brace is a non issue, but if it is an issue for you, maybe there is a way…

One picture here shows the early mock-up of your new crossovers. As mentioned earlier, there will be wires soldered between these two boards.

Maybe you can fit the boards as indicated with green with a board either side of the brace. I don’t know, if there is space for the board between the DSP board (green PCB to the left) and the yellow brace, but you can check this, when you get the filters. You might then have to replace the wires Tony solder between the two boards with longer wires, as the boards will need to be located further apart to clear the brace.

Or you can remove the small yellow brace, install the two filters and add a new brace that takes up less space if that helps the installation. This could be what we call a ‘’rundstok’’… No idea what it’s called in English, but see the picture. That will have a similar non structural function between two points at the sides of the cabinet.

Looking at the mockup boards, it appears some changes might be introduced. Where you put caps in parallel, Tony seems to have swapped it for (most likely) larger single ones. Also I see some changes, like a Jantzen Alumen Z in the woofer section.

 

[MortenB]

Yes, that is correct (explained and discussed quite a bit earlier in the thread).

There are midwoofer parts on both boards. The tweeter section is basically just 3 of the parts, on the board to the right.

 

[Markuzz]

Yes, that is correct (explained and discussed quite a bit earlier in the thread).

There are midwoofer parts on both boards. The tweeter section is basically just 3 of the parts, on the board to the right.

Could you please point me to the post number where the changes are discussed?

Looking at the boards, I am guessing that the tweeter high-pass is formed by the Jantzen Audio Alumen Z-Cap and smaller foil inductor. Also, it seems that the tweeter output level is lowered to match that of the midwoofer by means of an L-pad formed by the two Mundorf resistors on the right side.

What is the purpose of the light grey cap on the right board? And is this a Rike audio?

 

[Markuzz]

By the way, isn't the red Jantzen Audio Superior Z-Cap and the small hidden black cap (knowing Tony, perhaps a Cornell Dubilier) also part of the tweeter section by forming a bypass for the Alumen Z?

 

[MortenB]

The design of the filter is IP of Golden Ear and I respect that. As discussed in the thread, they have done solid engineering with these speakers, so I would rather not discuss design details, or show the schematic.

Map it out if you’re courious

 

[Markuzz]

The design of the filter is IP of Golden Ear and I respect that. As discussed in the thread, they have done solid engineering with these speakers, so I would rather not discuss design details, or show the schematic.

Map it out if you’re courious

OK, understood. Will do.

 

[MortenB]

Tony send me this to discuss final details. Four sets of filters almost done

 

[Markuzz]

Cool indeed. I suspect mine are included, since I see the Duelund bypasses on the left bottom pair

 

[MortenB]

As I understand it he has 3 orders, one of them is yours He bought parts for, and builds, one more set. Maybe he is sensing, that there will be an order from the northern part of Scandinavia (I have not told him anything Mikko).

By clever part selection he also managed to save some space compared to my crossovers, that are somewhat bigger. As explained/discussed quite a bit in this thread, I made my crossovers based on parts I had in stock, and some of these parts are discontinued. Also I used various caps in parallel to form the huge 460uF cap we need on the midwoofer, my solution takes more space. Tony has (of course) bought the most suitable capacitors, and this makes your crossovers a bit smaller = should be easier to install.

 

[higher sound]

Morten
am I in one of the 3?
Hope so since I am the farthest away

 

[MortenB]

I don’t know who has ordered. If you have ordered, he is making you a crossover. Very simple

 

[higher sound]

The waiting is the hardest part

 

[MortenB]

I’m sure it get’s much worse, when you get your tracking number

 

[Raesco]

The waiting is the hardest part

"All goods things come to things come to those who wait".

 

[higher sound]

you guys are so right!
new binding posts coming on Friday
then soon I will have the new SA PGI TT-7 which Jim Weil from Sound Application
said it is levels above the older one (which I had and loved)
the combination of all these wonderful things to come brings to mind that song
from the past "Anticipation"

 

[MortenB]

Another update from Tony, and I just learned, that he actually has 4 orders from you guys. Somehow I thought he had 3 orders.

Anyway, he is now testing your cross overs. They are build as matched pairs, so he is also measuring, that they perform identical etc etc. You are in very good an competent hands

The first two pairs to be shipped out are for DIY’ers who make the cabling themselfs, they go out first. Then Tony will make the cables and solder these to the crossovers for the other two orders before they are shipped out.

Again, I have no idea who ordered what, I’m just passing on information.