Thank you for the sit-rep wisnon, I was aware of the redesign of the board, I had meant modification in the context of circuit design rather than to existing modules. We can but wait and see whether brainstorming any of Blizzards recommendations may result in future development, It is refreshing to see such consideration of third party ideas on their merit rather than Regarded as outside interference and ignored, a trait in Lukasz to be admired.
Golden Gate DAC arrives.
- Thread starter Blue58
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Sure, Lukasz seems to consider everything. However, he is a busy bee and hard to get a hold of sometimes.
Whenever I get thru, I try to ask about all this stuff and he and his team are always trying new stuff. i am sure he will test out all this stuff in due time, but like everyone, will have to set priorities.
Right now he has apparently nailed down his latest (affordable) headdac design, after winning best in show for sound at the Warsaw Canjam. AlRainbow from here has had his HDac rebuilt and will hear it when he gets back to NYC this weekend. Lots of new tweaks went in, plus the new PCM, of course.
Blizzard's clocjk mod makes intuitive sense to try out, but what the afctual upside will be is unclear, given that it may not be the lowest hanging fruit. Why do I say that? Well i heard the Server playing AO upconverted PCM to DSD256 feeding bughead and hardware tweaks were the LAST thing on my mind then. When hit with reel to reel quality, my find flashed to SOFTWARE optimization immediately. This is with what Blizz considers inferior USB protocol and inferior Amanero clock. It was so alarmingly good that I realized there and then that there is more to extract even without costly hardware mods and transport redesigns.
Whenever I get thru, I try to ask about all this stuff and he and his team are always trying new stuff. i am sure he will test out all this stuff in due time, but like everyone, will have to set priorities.
Right now he has apparently nailed down his latest (affordable) headdac design, after winning best in show for sound at the Warsaw Canjam. AlRainbow from here has had his HDac rebuilt and will hear it when he gets back to NYC this weekend. Lots of new tweaks went in, plus the new PCM, of course.
Blizzard's clocjk mod makes intuitive sense to try out, but what the afctual upside will be is unclear, given that it may not be the lowest hanging fruit. Why do I say that? Well i heard the Server playing AO upconverted PCM to DSD256 feeding bughead and hardware tweaks were the LAST thing on my mind then. When hit with reel to reel quality, my find flashed to SOFTWARE optimization immediately. This is with what Blizz considers inferior USB protocol and inferior Amanero clock. It was so alarmingly good that I realized there and then that there is more to extract even without costly hardware mods and transport redesigns.
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You are just repeating your arguments in a circular way, avoiding my main argument - it is your unknown and non described experience and that of unknown DIY people.
IMHO you are using the jitter argument as a miraculous cure, exactly the same way some people use the argument of minimizing distortion or noise.
My point is that results you obtained in other equipment in non reported conditions are not forcefully transposed to all other similar equipment. The people from Lampizator are not ordinary DIY moders. They have large experience with the product, they had the opportunity to listen to it in many SOTA systems around the world, and a known background. Until we have their opinion I think there is no reason to carry a change that invalidates warranties and involves soldering.
If your advice was just a simple swap reversible in ten seconds, such as a tube swap, that can be done and reverted how long I we wish, I would not be so conservative - I also enjoy tuning.
We had a similar affair in the SoundLab forum years ago concerning the back plates. A few DIY modifiers started modifying the standard crossovers, optimizing it to their specif systems. Although the modification had some good consequences, it also had a few problems with some amplifiers - they could result in abundant smoke emission in some cases!Roger West, the Soundlab onwer and designer, tested the mods, become aware of what could be improved in his own design, and later incorporated the results of this research in a new development - the Tooroid II. Surely I was one the first people to ask for it, as soon as it got the official approval seal.
I hope that soon we will have the opinion of Lampizator people on these matters. Perhaps they will agree with you and offer an option similar to your advice, who knows?
Clock mods are not the same as mods anywhere else on the DAC. The USB interface is seperate from the DAC altogether. Improving it, is only going to improve the sound. Just like improving the computer feeding it improves the sound. You guys just don't understand how the DAC works, or else you would be all over this (warranty worries aside)
Even the Chinese guys who make $1100 DAC's upgrade the stock Amanero. You guys need to wake up. Lukasz's tube output stage doesn't make the DAC immune to jitter. He has to obide by all the same rules as every other manufacturer, when it comes to jitter, to get better jitter performance.
It's hard to understand how something can be better without hearing it first. Some people think the Bose wave radio is the holy grail. You need to experience lower jitter, then take it away. This is when you really notice.
Can't you comment on audio issues without insults? Probably some of us know very well how a DAC works and have conscience that we still do not know a lot about audio systems, and know a clock has a real hardware implementation, with all the characteristics associated to digital circuits, admitting that changing a clock circuit can produce secondary effects in the sound of the system.
The only dogma in digital is that bits are bits - everything else seems open and must be confirmed by ears.
It wasn't an insult, just an observation. If you can find 1 DAC manufacturer who will say using lower jitter clocks degrade audio performance, please share. Most DAC manufacturers go through great lengths to eliminate Jitter. If the solution was just a matter of popping a $50 off the shelf USB interface in the box and calling it a day, it would sure save a lot of time, expense and headaches. And as I said before, a 1 bit chipless DSD system are even more sensitive to jitter than chip based systems. There's absolutely no means of jitter reduction in the design. This is why it's so important to use extremely low jitter clocks.
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I'm sorry if my style of explaining things doesn't compute in your mind. It's funny that when knowledgeable people from the DAC business read it, it's 100% clear as a bell.
Ok, this encapsulates the frustrations of modern day, online communication. Blizzard descends on this thread and other digital ones like a snowstorm LOL, extolling the virtues of a concept that it appears 100% of digital guys would approve of, but isn't included as standard, or as an option, on Lampi gear, and then pretty much expresses his exasperation that people don't get it, or are not prepared to do the "simple" work themselves, to get it done, and boost an exceptional-sounding product to being even more exceptional.
And of course argument and counter-argument ensue, Blizz proving his tenacity in not being put in his place. And the guys who feel he's stepping on their sensiblities, feel more and more sensitive. I've been there, done that, on many a WBF thread.
FWIW, surely it's commendable that Blizz imparts this info. Mark my words, Lampi will probably have this as standard at a future date not too far away if Lucasz can get a moment in his schedule.
But surely at this point, Blizz has made public his ideas, the naysayers and anxious-to-tinker have expressed their doubts, and now it's time to get back to the unit itself.
Or am I missing something?
And of course argument and counter-argument ensue, Blizz proving his tenacity in not being put in his place. And the guys who feel he's stepping on their sensiblities, feel more and more sensitive. I've been there, done that, on many a WBF thread.
FWIW, surely it's commendable that Blizz imparts this info. Mark my words, Lampi will probably have this as standard at a future date not too far away if Lucasz can get a moment in his schedule.
But surely at this point, Blizz has made public his ideas, the naysayers and anxious-to-tinker have expressed their doubts, and now it's time to get back to the unit itself.
Or am I missing something?
As I do not recognize myself as a member of the bolded group, I will answer to your spirituous points. 99.99% of the digital guys will tell you that the modification presented has no consequence in sound quality, as its measurable effects are too low to be audible. The Skeptics will tell that it is just a promotional trick to justify more expensive equipment. IMHO it is why this modification is being debated here and not in the WBF measurement section. It seems that the only place where it shows interest is in the thread interesting mainly a group of people who love so much sound quality that they use strange techniques, sometimes using old noisy fashioned devices, to listen to digital in their systems. Can you imagine that some of these people even claim to prefer the measurably and scientifically inferior DSD to the more perfect PCM HiRez?
I appreciate your good will, but IMHO applying amateurish kindergarten psychological methods to smooth debates never had success in forums.
Perhaps Lucasz will consider, test and implement this modification, even perfecting it. The use of expensive, low phase noise clocks is not a new subject. But until now it was never validated per se.
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As I do not recognize myself as a member of the bolded group, I will answer to your spirituous points. 99.99% of the digital guys will tell you that the modification presented has no consequence in sound quality, as its measurable effects are too low to be audible. The Skeptics will tell that it is just a promotional trick to justify more expensive equipment. IMHO it is why this modification is being debated here and not in the WBF measurement section. It seems that the only place where it shows interest is in the thread interesting mainly a group of people who love so much sound quality that they use strange techniques, sometimes using old noisy fashioned devices, to listen to digital in their systems. Can you imagine that some of these people even claim to prefer the measurably and scientifically inferior DSD to the more perfect PCM HiRez?
I appreciate your good will, but IMHO applying amateurish kindergarten psychological methods to smooth debates never had success in forums.
Perhaps Lucasz will consider, test and implement this modification, even perfecting it. The use of expensive, low phase noise clocks is not a new subject. But until now it was never validated per se.
What's your take on a few $ worth of parts, and a shiny new lid doubling the price of the B7? I suppose this reclocker would add another $15000 to the price of the GG.
On the website this is what's listed for upgrades. But we need to remember, that the parts used in the B7 in the place of these parts weren't free.
" 1.Silver WBT solder used throughout
2.Furutech IEC inlet AC socket
3.WBT gold / silver RCA output sockets
4.Furutech RCA digital input
5.ATOM Vishay first capacitor after the tube
6.Mundorf M-Lytic HV electrolytes in second stage of PSU
7.Mundorf Foil MKP capacitors in third stage of power supply just before the tube anode
8.Metal-Film laser cut resistor MLT in Anode Load
9.Teflon sockets for all 3 tubes
10.Output capacitors are the huge Jupiter-Copper 1uF caps, bypassed by Duelund Pure Silver caps. Yes, a hybrid, best of both worlds, supposedly beating even pure silver one-cap solution.
11.All wiring is 26 GA stranded silver in teflon
12.Rectifier tube is Emission Labs monstrous Mesh Plate 5U4G
13.Music Tubes are Wester Electric Replica 101D / Metal base Psvane
14.Digital input SPDIF capacitor is Jupiter Wax Copper 100nF
15.Packing in a special customized stage case
16.Chassis / box is made of pure copper stamped and powder clearcoated for 100 years of immaculate shine. Copper provides also head dissipation and the best EM shielding possible.
17.A set of ceramic / steel roller-block feet supports the DAC"
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As I do not recognize myself as a member of the bolded group, I will answer to your spirituous points. 99.99% of the digital guys will tell you that the modification presented has no consequence in sound quality, as its measurable effects are too low to be audible. The Skeptics will tell that it is just a promotional trick to justify more expensive equipment. IMHO it is why this modification is being debated here and not in the WBF measurement section. It seems that the only place where it shows interest is in the thread interesting mainly a group of people who love so much sound quality that they use strange techniques, sometimes using old noisy fashioned devices, to listen to digital in their systems. Can you imagine that some of these people even claim to prefer the measurably and scientifically inferior DSD to the more perfect PCM HiRez?
I appreciate your good will, but IMHO applying amateurish kindergarten psychological methods to smooth debates never had success in forums.
Perhaps Lucasz will consider, test and implement this modification, even perfecting it. The use of expensive, low phase noise clocks is not a new subject. But until now it was never validated per se.
Micro, I'm glad you appreciate my good will. The purpose of my post was not to smooth over anything, in an amateurish kindergarden psychological method, or any other method (personally, I thought I was being quite sophisticated LOL). It was just a world weary observation. You guys can keep knocking each other over the head w/blocks of concrete as much as you like. It was really an overview of how comments from Blizz which he purports are just put out there to help people achieve better sound easily have had the opposite effect on many including y'self.
I´m the new guy in this neighbourhood so I will tread with light feet...Personally I don´t see an insult anywhere on Blizzard´s post and some of you are making a meal or more likely a banquet out of a simple suggestion to improve a product that has been nothing but constantly improved since its inception. Lukasz himself started out modding or "Lampizing" gear and there is nothing offensive in what Blizzard is proposing which is exactly to lampize a Lampizator DAC, he is not pointing a gun at anyone to force them to do the mod, merely suggesting an easy (for him) and inexpensive way to improve sound quality which is what we´re all pursuing in the end. Yes, it´s not easy on the ear to be told your expensive, state of the art, best in the world, can´t imagine sounding better, boutique parts galore DAC has a cheap Amanero implementation that can be easily bettered, but the reality is it will be bettered because that is the Lampizator spirit.
I want to state that I´m a huge fan of Lukasz and his work and do not intend to offend anyone, I´d love to own a Golden Gate and if I did, I would welcome Blizzard´s suggestions and surely run them past Lukasz.
It's nice to see that some people understand that the reason I'm posting this is to educate people, and to help them get the best out of their gear. There's no conspiracy theory here.
But after studying the Lampi gear further, I'm seriously considering starting a Lampi mod service. For $2000, I'll turn a DSD lite 7, into a GG killer! This is the kind of stuff is that drives innovation forward!
But after studying the Lampi gear further, I'm seriously considering starting a Lampi mod service. For $2000, I'll turn a DSD lite 7, into a GG killer! This is the kind of stuff is that drives innovation forward!
So, at $2k minus this $485, your work will cost $1515 - sounds good for what you say is just a couple of moment's work. Pile 'em high until Lucasz fits this as standard.
Lol. You obviously won't since you would have the obstacle of Lukasz signing off on your $2000 mod and thereby devaluing the brand. Alas I don't fancy your chances.
In all seriousness though, I would take up Wisnon on his suggestion of merely setting up a business agreed with Lampi to install the pimped up Anamero - all kosher and no warranty invalidated.
I must say you do appear to have an inquisitive mind and relentless tenacity so I can see you succeeding, maybe you could start an ask Dr. Blizzard thread and advise your fellow forum members on how to improve their DAC´s
starting with my LH Labs Pulse XFI
I must say you do appear to have an inquisitive mind and relentless tenacity so I can see you succeeding, maybe you could start an ask Dr. Blizzard thread and advise your fellow forum members on how to improve their DAC´s
The thing about the Lampi's is they are super easy to mod. This is because they were designed by a modder. Other DAC's that have all SMT components, nested tightly on a single PCB, are much harder to mod. But this is a good thing. I like the modular, easily upgradable design of the Lampi's. It keeps them from being disposable.
If I do decide to start this service, I would make a fresh 5 year warranty on the complete DAC once the mod is preformed. So people can stop worrying about warranty.
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