Greg Weaver Reviews Center Stage 2 In Positive Feedback

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2010
6,135
125
63
La Jolla, Calif USA
#82
Just for the record, it was not me who brought up that speaker, it was KeithR in his post on the 10th, #5. And though it launched at $295K, it is now priced at a rounded out $300K.
Mr. Weaver, in your review you stated this:

"At the time they were installed, my system included my Kronos Sparta turntable, Helena tonearm, and the Air Tight PC-1 MC cartridge, feeding my DSA Phono II phono stage. Digital was rendered by either my own Windows 10 based PC, using either JRiver 24 (64-bit) or Roon 1.5, with Fidelizer v8.2, or my extensively modified McCormack UDP-1, both handing off to my Hegel HD30 DAC. My linestage is the Constellation Audio Inspiration 1.0, and I am using a pair of Constellation Audio 1.0 stereo amplifiers in a vertical biamp configuration to drive my Von Schweikert Audio VR-5 Aktive loudspeakers. Signal cabling is from Stealth Audio, with a Helios phono cable, Śakra V12 single-ended interconnects, and the Dream v14 speaker cables, while all power and the USB cable were flagship products from Audience. Power conditioning is managed with the PS Audio DirectStream P20 Power Plant, an Audience aR12-TSSOX, and 2 Quantum Symphony Pro's, with the total system investment just eclipsing the $300,000 mark."


followed by this " I honestly don't believe that I could reap this significant a sonic improvement if I were to double the total invested price of my system, maybe even if I were to triple it! They truly are that effective."

Hence my question to Damon.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
6,020
590
113
Beverly Hills, CA
#83
. . . Learn the rules of debate, for goodness sake...

. . . You have NOTHING OF ANY MERIT to add to this conversation, and no valid opinion on the sound - period. So, you should just shut the F*** up .

. . .
Dear Greg,

1) I was for four years co-captain of the interstate competitive formal debating team of my high school in Scarsdale, New York, and I certify to you that telling the other team to "shut the F*** up" would result in you being disqualified from that particular debating competition.

2) Many WBF members are very experienced audiophiles with finely-tuned systems which have evolved over many years of pursuing this hobby. We are not a collection of inexperienced newbies, jealous keyboard warriors or trolls. A number of our members are fortunate to have assembled over decades of auditioning and system-building experience some of the finest high-end audio systems in the entire world.

3) I stand by my post #20, above, in which I wrote: "As a general matter on WBF a prima facie empirical report beats a theoretical hypothesis to the contrary." But this does not mean, as you wrote, that "[someone who has not auditioned the product has] nothing of any merit to add to this conversation."

We have a strong tradition on WBF of enjoying theoretical discussions. Obviously not everyone will be able to hear every component the audition of which is reported on. So members who have auditioned a product enjoy discussing suppositions and theories and entertaining other peoples' deductions based on their experiences and engaging in speculative analysis with people who have not yet heard a product. This is very normal and encouraged here on WBF.

Implicitly you are suggesting a ban on posting by anyone who has not personally auditioned the component being discussed. We do not believe in that here.

4) Under no circumstances is it acceptable for any member or guest to post profanity. It is totally unacceptable and it will not be tolerated. Furthermore, profanity completely undermines anything of logical or intellectual value which came before it.
 
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#84
Greg, if you don't understand point by point analysis, this is not my problem.
LOL, GAWD you crack me up. You are so funny! If you don't understand how to stay on point in a debate, how to defend the actual topic points, rather than point at something off to the side and say, "See, that's shiny," that IS your problem.
 
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bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
10,211
699
113
London
#85
Thank You. It was time you or Steve said this to the Peter Would B.

Dear Greg,

1) I was for four years co-captain of the interstate competitive formal debating team of my high school in Scarsdale, New York, and I certify to you that telling the other team to "shut the F*** up" would result in you being disqualified from that particular debating competition.

2) Many WBF members are very experienced audiophiles with finely-tuned systems which have evolved over many years of pursuing this hobby. We are not a collection of inexperienced newbies, jealous keyboard warriors or trolls. A number of our members are fortunate to have assembled over decades of auditioning and system-building experience some of the finest high-end audio systems in the entire world.

3) I stand by most post #20, above, in which I wrote: "As a general matter on WBF a prima facie empirical report beats a theoretical hypothesis to the contrary. But this does not mean, as you wrote, that "[someone who has not auditioned the product has] nothing of any merit to add to this conversation."

We have a strong tradition on WBF of enjoying theoretical discussions. Obviously not everyone will be able to hear every component the audition of which is reported on. So we enjoy discussing suppositions and theories and engaging in analysis with people who have not yet heard a product. This is very normal and encouraged here on WBF.

Implicitly you are suggesting a ban on posting by anyone who has not personally auditioned the component being discussed. We do not believe in that here.

4) Under no circumstances is it acceptable for any member or guest to post profanity. It is totally unacceptable and it will not be tolerated. Furthermore, profanity completely undermines anything of logical or intellectual value which came before it.
 
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#86
Dear Greg,

1) I was for four years co-captain of the interstate competitive formal debating team of my high school in Scarsdale, New York, and I certify to you that telling the other team to "shut the F*** up" would result in you being disqualified from that particular debating competition.

2) Many WBF members are very experienced audiophiles with finely-tuned systems which have evolved over many years of pursuing this hobby. We are not a collection of inexperienced newbies, jealous keyboard warriors or trolls. A number of our members are fortunate to have assembled over decades of auditioning and system-building experience some of the finest high-end audio systems in the entire world.

3) I stand by most post #20, above, in which I wrote: "As a general matter on WBF a prima facie empirical report beats a theoretical hypothesis to the contrary. But this does not mean, as you wrote, that "[someone who has not auditioned the product has] nothing of any merit to add to this conversation."

We have a strong tradition on WBF of enjoying theoretical discussions. Obviously not everyone will be able to hear every component the audition of which is reported on. So we enjoy discussing suppositions and theories ad engaging in analysis with people who have not yet heard a product but who have a theoretical comment to make. This is very normal and encouraged here on WBF.

Implicitly you are suggesting a ban on posting by anyone who has not personally auditioned the component being discussed. We do not believe in that here.

4) Under no circumstances is it acceptable for any member or guest to post profanity. It is totally unacceptable and it will not be tolerated. Furthermore, profanity completely undermines anything of logical or intellectual value which came before it.
Hello Ron,

You are, of course, correct, and I am only too happy to comply. The original comment was made to illustrate my point! Go back to where I said that this was the last time I intended to be polite when calling bull. However, that is no excuse, and as I was aggravated enough to make the example, you have my assurances that I clearly do not need to stoop to the use of profanity to make my points... I hope that you, and the forum members in general, will accept my sincere apologies for that transgression.

And, as to point 3, I was not suggesting that if you had not heard the item under discussion that you should not be able to ask questions or offer intelligent contributions to the conversations. I did state, as a fact, that if you have not heard the item/s in question, by definition you have nothing of any merit to offer as to how they sound or do not sound! That is simple logic. If I've never driven a Porsche 911, I have absolutely no grounds to say that it handles better or worse than a Chevy Corvette...
 
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#87
Start with the Pre Bob. Since it's at the heart of things (at least for those with multiple sources) that's typically where I try things for the first time.

I haven't been on the forum much for some time. Some of my friends here know why but suffice it to say that my absence has nothing to do with the forum or even the hobby in general. Just going through sad, sad times.

Compared to many if not most members here, I've been in the hobby for a relatively short time. Not even 30 years in earnest. I mention that just because by the time I was infected, many of the most contentious issues had tamed down as the frauds withered and those that did have benefit ultimately survived. By the time I came in tip toes were no longer a big deal. Today's proliferation of footers probably trace roots way back to them.

There will always be those looking to build a better mouse trap and there will always be those who will choose to just get a cat. LOL

What I've come to accept is that these do make differences. I went from simple after market spikes to copper and brass, tried all kinds of materials in different shapes and sizes, some worked for me and some didn't. One leaked oil and ruined some furniture even. Many I have owned, many popular to this day, I never deride, I'm not being polite or am I trying particularly hard to be ethical since I am part of the industry. It is simply because what might have not worked or worked in a limited fashion for me just might be what somebody else needs at a particular point in his personal process.

I have CS footers in use, both V1 and V2. As I said before, they aren't coming out. They work for me so they stay. I don't even get bothered by all the naysaying. I just don't care. If somebody doesn't want to try, he loses nothing. I gained, good for me. The other guys? No problem. Enjoy what you have.

I've been asked for advice here countless times over the years. I think I have a pretty high batting average. I'm not selfish with what little I know but I am selfish with my time and I will not burn that time on any more negativity.
Jack, thanks for taking time to offer your advice. I'm sorry to hear you are going through sad times. I'll say a little prayer the angel of grace finds the way to you.

I was thinking the preamp would be a place any benefit would be heard throughout the system (and I wouldn't be able to use the biggest of the footers in my rack, so they'd be less costly as well.)

Warm regards.
 
Likes: Bodhi

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
4,270
228
63
Greater Boston
#88
Hello Ron,

You are, of course, correct, and I am only too happy to comply. The original comment was made to illustrate my point! Go back to where I said that this was the last time I intended to be polite when calling bull. However, that is no excuse, and as I was aggravated enough to make the example, you have my assurances that I clearly do not need to stoop to the use of profanity to make my points... I hope that you, and the forum members in general, will accept my sincere apologies for that transgression.
I do, thank you, Greg!
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2011
5,318
250
83
North Shore of Boston
#89
Why don't each of us who has NOT auditioned the footers (including me) hold our skepticism in abeyance for now?
I have auditioned the footers in a friend's very familiar system. There were five or six sets under a variety of components. They were fully broken in after three weeks and there was no issue with speaker placement. I had heard the system before the footers were installed, while they were installed, and then as each set was being removed, one component at a time, and then finally after they had all been removed from the system. I suppose this follows the the A-B-A test recommendation. I formed an opinion about the footers in this particular installation.

Given the tone of this thread and the fact that Steve is the founder of this site and has financial interest in this product, I have decided not to share my opinion about the effect of these footer on the sound of this system. I find the whole situation a bit uncomfortable.
 
#90
Mr. Weaver, in your review you stated this:

"At the time they were installed, my system included my Kronos Sparta turntable, Helena tonearm, and the Air Tight PC-1 MC cartridge, feeding my DSA Phono II phono stage. Digital was rendered by either my own Windows 10 based PC, using either JRiver 24 (64-bit) or Roon 1.5, with Fidelizer v8.2, or my extensively modified McCormack UDP-1, both handing off to my Hegel HD30 DAC. My linestage is the Constellation Audio Inspiration 1.0, and I am using a pair of Constellation Audio 1.0 stereo amplifiers in a vertical biamp configuration to drive my Von Schweikert Audio VR-5 Aktive loudspeakers. Signal cabling is from Stealth Audio, with a Helios phono cable, Śakra V12 single-ended interconnects, and the Dream v14 speaker cables, while all power and the USB cable were flagship products from Audience. Power conditioning is managed with the PS Audio DirectStream P20 Power Plant, an Audience aR12-TSSOX, and 2 Quantum Symphony Pro's, with the total system investment just eclipsing the $300,000 mark."


followed by this " I honestly don't believe that I could reap this significant a sonic improvement if I were to double the total invested price of my system, maybe even if I were to triple it! They truly are that effective."

Hence my question to Damon.
Hello, I'm not clear if there is a question here, or what it might be that you are trying to convey. Are you saying that the dollar amount I list as the approximate total for my compete system is where you thought the reference to the price of the ULTRA 11 loudspeakers came from? Sorry... I may need some clarification.
 

DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
2,413
212
63
#91
Wow, I think folks need to step back and look at what's being argued, an emotional reaction by human beings. It's hard to quantify.

First, concrete improvements like better resolution, soundstage, tone, etc are hard or impossible to measure but not hard to hear. The degree of improvement in these area due to a system improvement can vary wildly. They can even be good in one system and bad in another system.

Over the years the degree this can be true has been eye opening. With my cables I've heard ordinary sounding systems transformed to something special and also had them simply reveal issues and sound worse in other systems. I think when a system is high performing and dialed in, but one aspect of system performance is holding it back, then correcting that one issue can result in unbelievable improvements.


OTOH, emotional reactions to improvements and human bias make quantifying the improvements in an objective manner near impossible. Just yesterday I got this email from a customer (see below). How do you quantify this kind of improvement? To some it might not be that big of a deal, it's very personal because it depends on what YOU value in music reproduction... to my customer it might be described as a big difference. Also, maybe he was used to his system as-is for years and would marvel at any slight improvement, or maybe this really made a large objective improvement anyone would notice? That's hard to tell too...

So, these personal interpretations are hard to know, impossible really... I think we should remember we're all human trying to describe things we can't yet understand or measure, and hampered by previous beliefs that cause us to be biased. As humans we also want to form opinions and beliefs because not knowing is a weakness. So we form opinions without facts, just based on imagination many times. I don't think anyone is immune from at least some of these issues.

But, hopefully reflecting on these issues will give us more empathy for each others' views.

WOW, upon power up, after switch, the difference shocked me. I listened for about 3 hours on familiar tracks insuring that the difference was beneficial – No doubt that it is, i.e. tonally more correct, more depth/imaging, distinct with harmonics more evident. I could not switch to different recordings until the current one finished - a new for me while auditioning components. The real clencher/confirmation was when my wife wandered in, about 1 a.m., sat down and said “this really sounds good” and after playing through another hour for her, I had to call it a night as she was ready to hear more

(Transparent vs ZWA D4 RCA cables)
 
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Elliot G.

Industry Expert
Jul 22, 2010
836
95
28
Fort Lauderdale, Florida
#92
Why don't each of us who has NOT auditioned the footers (including me) hold our skepticism in abeyance for now?
Gentlemen,
its seems lately that this same result keeps happening in many different threads and its really always for the same reason.
If you have not heard the product/products in question in your system or a system that you are very familiar with then it really makes it difficult to have an accurate opportunity to know what it does. I was a dealer for a long time in many locations and the guys who come and hear a complete system that is not familiar to them, in a strange room, with strange components, with cables they don't have on a speaker system they don't own and then make a statement like" That's the best power cord I ever heard" are just being ridiculous. I have stated a few times on WBF that getting a chance to hear something at a show or perhaps a dealer can be informative however it may not be the total performance that a product or products is capable of. I personally feel along with some of my audio friends that having a good sounding room is way more important than the gear that goes in it. The optimal spot for the placement of the speakers and listening position will work for many choices since this is the correct spot not a random spot. I mean by that if one was to try a variety of speakers for example in that good room they all will do a good job of showing you what they can do. In the contrary state of a mediocre or crappy room/set up almost nothing will get close to its capabilities. I think this is highly under emphasized in the audio world and many are searching for audio band aids to fix the issues they hear but probably will only change and not solve.
I have no input about the feet since I have not tried them and do not want to sidetrack this thread as I find the comments about the effectiveness interesting. I don't know how one puts a multiple or a dollar sign on improvements but everyone has the right and the ability to express themselves as they see fit.
I love music and audio is the way that allows me to do that. Defending oneself from others about experiences they have not had seems to be a total waste of time in my opinion.
 

DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
2,413
212
63
#93
Gentlemen,
its seems lately that this same result keeps happening in many different threads and its really always for the same reason.
If you have not heard the product/products in question in your system or a system that you are very familiar with then it really makes it difficult to have an accurate opportunity to know what it does. I was a dealer for a long time in many locations and the guys who come and hear a complete system that is not familiar to them, in a strange room, with strange components, with cables they don't have on a speaker system they don't own and then make a statement like" That's the best power cord I ever heard" are just being ridiculous. I have stated a few times on WBF that getting a chance to hear something at a show or perhaps a dealer can be informative however it may not be the total performance that a product or products is capable of. I personally feel along with some of my audio friends that having a good sounding room is way more important than the gear that goes in it. The optimal spot for the placement of the speakers and listening position will work for many choices since this is the correct spot not a random spot. I mean by that if one was to try a variety of speakers for example in that good room they all will do a good job of showing you what they can do. In the contrary state of a mediocre or crappy room/set up almost nothing will get close to its capabilities. I think this is highly under emphasized in the audio world and many are searching for audio band aids to fix the issues they hear but probably will only change and not solve.
I have no input about the feet since I have not tried them and do not want to sidetrack this thread as I find the comments about the effectiveness interesting. I don't know how one puts a multiple or a dollar sign on improvements but everyone has the right and the ability to express themselves as they see fit.
I love music and audio is the way that allows me to do that. Defending oneself from others about experiences they have not had seems to be a total waste of time in my opinion.

I agree.

To take it further, unless you've tried something in multiple systems it's hard to make judgments. Years ago I used to lament the lack of critical reviews, but later I learned that it's impossible to be certain about things without far more work than can actually be put into doing a review. So we need to keep that in mind, the review is in the context of the system(s) it's reviewed in and YMMV.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
#94
First, concrete improvements like better resolution, soundstage, tone, etc are hard or impossible to measure but not hard to hear. The degree of improvement in these area due to a system improvement can vary wildly. They can even be good in one system and bad in another system.
A very profound statement Dave and I agree completely. Many times the reason can be traced to something not right in the system and it isn't until the new equipment is removed that the old sound is better appreciated
 
#95
Gentlemen,
its seems lately that this same result keeps happening in many different threads and its really always for the same reason.
If you have not heard the product/products in question in your system or a system that you are very familiar with then it really makes it difficult to have an accurate opportunity to know what it does. I was a dealer for a long time in many locations and the guys who come and hear a complete system that is not familiar to them, in a strange room, with strange components, with cables they don't have on a speaker system they don't own and then make a statement like" That's the best power cord I ever heard" are just being ridiculous. I have stated a few times on WBF that getting a chance to hear something at a show or perhaps a dealer can be informative however it may not be the total performance that a product or products is capable of. I personally feel along with some of my audio friends that having a good sounding room is way more important than the gear that goes in it. The optimal spot for the placement of the speakers and listening position will work for many choices since this is the correct spot not a random spot. I mean by that if one was to try a variety of speakers for example in that good room they all will do a good job of showing you what they can do. In the contrary state of a mediocre or crappy room/set up almost nothing will get close to its capabilities. I think this is highly under emphasized in the audio world and many are searching for audio band aids to fix the issues they hear but probably will only change and not solve.
I have no input about the feet since I have not tried them and do not want to sidetrack this thread as I find the comments about the effectiveness interesting. I don't know how one puts a multiple or a dollar sign on improvements but everyone has the right and the ability to express themselves as they see fit.
I love music and audio is the way that allows me to do that. Defending oneself from others about experiences they have not had seems to be a total waste of time in my opinion.
Hello Elliot, while I agree with your sentiment entirely, I think you are stopping short of what the laws or reason and logic dictate....

You say, "If you have not heard the product/products in question in your system or a system that you are very familiar with then it really makes it difficult to have an accurate opportunity to know what it does."

I have to insist that never having heard the item under examination, it does not just make "...it difficult to have an accurate opportunity to know what it does.," it makes it impossible. But, thank you for bringing some reason and focus back to this discussion. My beef with this thread isn't whether someone agree with my findings or should buy and use these footers, but rather, just what I stated here. If you've NOT heard it, there is no way you can know, therefore your opinions on what it sounds like are meaningless. You want to express your opinion on how they look, on their color, on their price, shucks, even on how they are packaged? Go for it. If you have questions, ask. But don't pretend to know how they sound... ;-)
 
#96
Quick question for Damon...in all sincerity do you believe that the CS footers ( or any footer or tweek for that matter, so that we are not just zeroing in on the particular product that is the subject of this thread) can bring about a bigger increase in SQ than any of the speakers that you manufacture? (...up to and including your flagship product; which unless I am mistaken retails for $295,000- . just shy of the number ($300K) that Greg Weaver used as an example!)
Hi DaveyF, glad to share my insight.

I don't think what I'm about to say will be revolutionary to anyone on this forum but we'll see ;)

Considering what component upgrade may have the greatest impact on any particular system is what we all struggle with; either in our personal system, a friend's system, a potential customer or even a system we're preparing to present at a show. It's an exercise we do regularly. And Leif and I consider these things together; we argue, we experiment, we confirm ;)

First, let me lay some disclaimers down.

1 - I won't speak for any hypothetical product or generalize the performance of all the products in a category. Instead I'll try be very specific.
2 - I don't consider the isolation of electronics a "tweak." From my experience and in my mind it's a critical component to achieving higher levels of performance; especially so in very high-performance systems.
3 - In every situation, your miles will vary.

Considering Leif's current home system, he has our $40K Endeavor E-5 MkII being driven by roughly $8K in Audio Alchemy source and amplification. And he presently has a modest rack that I would estimate provides very little if any isolation. From my first-hand experience of adding $6K of the original CS footers (zero CS2 footers), the improvement in the signal being transmitted by the Audio Alchemy front-end to the E-5 MkII was far superior (by a magnitude not a percentage) than swapping out the line stage and amplifier with ones that I highly respect (and have won several Best of Show with) that cost 7.5 times as much. Clearly the footers were the better choice to me, the greatest ROI. In this case, the weakest link in the chain was isolation, not the quality of the front-end.

Now on to the hypothetical proposition of swapping out the E-5 MkII (again $40K) with the ULTRA 11 ($300K or 7.5 times as much), I would estimate the improvement would not be as great.

While the ULTRA 11 is far more revealing than the E-5 MkII, the weakest link in Leif's system was the isolation issues with the front-end. So upgrading the loudspeakers would have little positive affect.

In my consideration, it might even degrade the overall performance with the ULTRA 11 exposing issues that are less perceptible on the E-5 MkII. I think the old hack "garbage in, garbage out" would apply in this case. Loudspeakers perform at the level of what's put in front of them, period. They are incapable of improving the source, only diminishing it.

So in this case I think improving the signal going into the E-5MkII is the better choice than breaking our backs moving the ULTRA 11 into Leif's sound room. You haven't seen his stairs. Let's wait until we significantly upgrade the front-end first ;)
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
#97
As far as the A-B-A test that I have always advocated with CS feet in ones "own" system and comments that this was never done, brought to mind that during the month of September when Joe did the upgrade from version one to version to for all those wanting to do the upgrade, the biggest comments I got from people who had sent their feet back was "when do I get the feet back because I can't listen to my system as it is now"

I've had that same epiphany having done it in my system 8 times

As far as Greg's comment about the value of these feet and comparing it the way he did brought a lot of replies of disbelief from members
I thought Greg's answer was for me at least, logical. He said adding the $300K speaker would make a speaker upgrade in the room for sure but doesn't address the rest of the equipment.

I've said here before that there are things that I have done to my system that I feel made the system I loved to listen to better in every aspect. There was time when I was considering those $300K speakers. I believe I was the first person to hear them and loved them. The designer of those new speakers heard my system before and after the addition of CS2 feet and stated that as much as he would like to sell me the speakers which clearly would be an upgrade overall my system sounded so good that he told me I didn't need the new speakers. Out of fairness I must add that a prerequisite was that my existing electronics not be changed as for me they are lifers. The fact that the use of my electronics could well hinder the proper performance of the new speakers made me rethink the change of speakers and I opted instead for keeping the system that I worked on for years and love to listen, only it sounds now at a level that I never knew existed. So much so that I sold my pair of JL Audio F113 subs. Ron was here yesterday and he said himself, my room sounds so much better without the subs. IO this has all happened since I placed CS footers under my entire system.

Putting them under your preamp or source gives one an understanding of what they do but placing them under all of one's components (for me at least) was a total system transformation. I think this is the message Greg was trying to convey
 
Likes: Leif S

Leif S

Industry Expert
Feb 14, 2015
578
23
18
California
www.vonschweikert.com
#98
I do, thank you, Greg!
As far as the A-B-A test that I have always advocated with CS feet in ones "own" system and comments that this was never done, brought to mind that during the month of September when Joe did the upgrade from version one to version to for all those wanting to do the upgrade, the biggest comments I got from people who had sent their feet back was "when do I get the feet back because I can't listen to my system as it is now"

I've had that same epiphany having done it in my system 8 times

As far as Greg's comment about the value of these feet and comparing it the way he did brought a lot of replies of disbelief from members
I thought Greg's answer was for me at least, logical. He said adding the $300K speaker would make a speaker upgrade in the room for sure but doesn't address the rest of the equipment.

I've said here before that there are things that I have done to my system that I feel made the system I loved to listen to better in every aspect. There was time when I was considering those $300K speakers. I believe I was the first person to hear them and loved them. The designer of those new speakers heard my system before and after the addition of CS2 feet and stated that as much as he would like to sell me the speakers which clearly would be an upgrade overall my system sounded so good that he told me I didn't need the new speakers. Out of fairness I must add that a prerequisite was that my existing electronics not be changed as for me they are lifers. The fact that the use of my electronics could well hinder the proper performance of the new speakers made me rethink the change of speakers and I opted instead for keeping the system that I worked on for years and love to listen, only it sounds now at a level that I never knew existed. So much so that I sold my pair of JL Audio F113 subs. Ron was here yesterday and he said himself, my room sounds so much better without the subs. IO this has all happened since I placed CS footers under my entire system.

Putting them under your preamp or source gives one an understanding of what they do but placing them under all of one's components (for me at least) was a total system transformation. I think this is the message Greg was trying to convey
I hated it when I pulled the footers lol
 

joelavrencik

Industry Expert
Nov 15, 2016
237
30
28
Chicago
www.criticalmasssystems.com
#99
I have auditioned the footers in a friend's very familiar system. There were five or six sets under a variety of components. They were fully broken in after three weeks and there was no issue with speaker placement. I had heard the system before the footers were installed, while they were installed, and then as each set was being removed, one component at a time, and then finally after they had all been removed from the system. I suppose this follows the the A-B-A test recommendation. I formed an opinion about the footers in this particular installation.

Given the tone of this thread and the fact that Steve is the founder of this site and has financial interest in this product, I have decided not to share my opinion about the effect of these footer on the sound of this system. I find the whole situation a bit uncomfortable.
Hi PeterA

Always good to hear from you. I think you described an A/B. In/Out. The cool part is the final /A. From my direct experience, depending on the support system, removing the feet can be likened to a balloon popping or a balloon with a slow leak. I find the best way to do the A/B/A is to listen to the system with them settled in/take them all out, go to lunch for 2 hours leaving the system playing, return and listen/ then put them all back in. I did this with JV and it was really something.

All the Best,

Joe
 

Al M.

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Sep 10, 2013
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I was a dealer for a long time in many locations and the guys who come and hear a complete system that is not familiar to them, in a strange room, with strange components, with cables they don't have on a speaker system they don't own and then make a statement like" That's the best power cord I ever heard" are just being ridiculous.
How true. Or the guy who always knows exactly which particular product is to blame for mediocre or bad sound of a system at shows. When that sound can have so many reasons, crappy hotel room power not being the least of them.

I have stated a few times on WBF that getting a chance to hear something at a show or perhaps a dealer can be informative however it may not be the total performance that a product or products is capable of.
Agreed. I very much prefer home demos, at least for equipment that is not too heavy or bulky to allow for that. (I did hear great things about your demo room though, Elliot.)

I personally feel along with some of my audio friends that having a good sounding room is way more important than the gear that goes in it. The optimal spot for the placement of the speakers and listening position will work for many choices since this is the correct spot not a random spot. I mean by that if one was to try a variety of speakers for example in that good room they all will do a good job of showing you what they can do. In the contrary state of a mediocre or crappy room/set up almost nothing will get close to its capabilities. I think this is highly under emphasized in the audio world and many are searching for audio band aids to fix the issues they hear but probably will only change and not solve.
Again very much agreed, Elliot. Even though I have worked on the acoustics of my room for years, I knew that I still had to have ceiling diffusers. Now that I finally have them (ASC, custom) I cannot believe how big the difference is, and that certain limitations of my system that I had resigned to are at the least very much mitigated, to a point where it transforms the listening experience. (More coming on my system thread.) On the other hand, of course, the ceiling diffusers are in no way a substitute for high-quality equipment, but they sure make it shine much more. -- I should add that my listening room ceiling was likely more problematic than others.

The importance of acoustics just cannot be overstated!
 
Likes: Bodhi

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